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An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

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Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#191

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

>Total repair costs, he estimates, are somewhere between $70,000 and $100,000

This is always so depressing to read, especially when you realize the thief did the damage only to gain a couple hundred dollars in copper. It's just a massive net loss for society to deal with this.

It's a similar problem places have with people destroying ac units to steal some small amount of copper.

Theft is always bad, but this blatant net negative for the world theft is the kind of thing that makes you wonder about societies long term.

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#192

Post by kadoban »

narrator wrote: post #156
johanvts wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hasn’t the economist of the world figured out a solution to this problem. There has to be a better way when both sides would be better off by just paying the theif double. Some kind of proof of work system to show that you really are crazy enough to do the crime maybe.

This is called prison, but that's pushing the easy button which is strictly forbidden.

If prison solved a society's problems, the USA would be a utopia.

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#193

Post by khafra »

rayiner wrote: post #153
aeonik wrote: post #15

Working backwards from clues in the article, thief maybe stole 200-400 ft of wire. Assuming between 3-1/8″ - 6-1/8″ diameter. Somewhere between $1,360 - $6,400 of scrap value. $70k-$100k to repair... Absurd.

Theft is a very inefficient tax on civilization.

Some theft is efficient. If a hypothetical thief grabs a few bills from an unattended wallet, and the wallet's owner wasn't counting on having a specific amount of money available soon after, the amount lost by the victim is roughly equal to the amount gained by the thief.

Stealing copper from power lines and transformers is among the least-efficient kinds theft; it's hard to do worse without shooting a wealthy philanthropist couple to steal a wallet and a pearl necklace. I have seen a term suggested--the "rapacity index"--for the ratio of value gained by the thief, to value lost by the victim. I think it makes sense to take a crime's rapacity index into consideration during sentencing.

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#194

Post by ohyes »

johanvts wrote: post #61
aeonik wrote: post #15

Working backwards from clues in the article, thief maybe stole 200-400 ft of wire. Assuming between 3-1/8″ - 6-1/8″ diameter. Somewhere between $1,360 - $6,400 of scrap value. $70k-$100k to repair... Absurd.

Why hasn’t the economist of the world figured out a solution to this problem. There has to be a better way when both sides would be better off by just paying the theif double. Some kind of proof of work system to show that you really are crazy enough to do the crime maybe.

The solution is inexpensive drugs for addicts, minimum standard of living, programs for getting off drugs. But there’s an incentive to make drugs expensive and people desperate, and to punish people for their “failures” rather than forgiving and helping.

It is cheaper to avoid the situation by structuring society in a way that people aren’t willing to steal copper for quick money.

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#195

Post by intended »

kelnos wrote: post #173
intended wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. The surest disincentive is knowing you will be caught, not the penalty. If you can get away with it, then what value the penalty?

The data doesn't agree with you, as others in this subthread have noted with references.

I saw only one submission to a paper, would you be willing to share links to the other references you mention?

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#196

Post by tadfisher »

johanvts wrote: post #103
jeffrallen wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a theory. It's socialism and it works fine in Scandinavia, Switzerland, and a bunch of other places.

Im Danish, and I approve of the welfare state system, but we still have people cutting down EV charger cables etc here.

The answer is, you still do socialism, and you also pay someone to go around busting scrap yards that buy obviously-stolen material.

Just focusing on the demand-side dramatically reduced incidences of catalytic converter theft in the US. You still get the occasional attempt, but basically no scrap yard will take catalytic converters without a title to the vehicle with matching VIN, and most will want to see the vehicle.

Yes, requiring paperwork to scrap wiring is bureaucracy manifest. But legitimate people just do not roll up to scrap yards with a van full of tangled 4/0.

The big catalytic converter buyer was so brazen, he had a mobile app. Free markets for stolen scrap is just beyond tolerable at this point.

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#197

Post by tedd4u »

asdefghyk wrote: post #10

The photo shows a cable ( with insulation ) that looks at least 4 inches thick ... (from a distance )

Probably something like this:

HJ9HP-50 Heliax High-Power Air-Dielectric Coax

https://www.alldataresource.com/Commscope-HJ9HP-50-HJ9-50-HE...

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#198

Post by ithkuil »

tadfisher wrote: post #196
johanvts wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im Danish, and I approve of the welfare state system, but we still have people cutting down EV charger cables etc here.

The answer is, you still do socialism, and you also pay someone to go around busting scrap yards that buy obviously-stolen material. Just focusing on the demand-side dramatically reduced incidences of catalytic converter theft in the US. You still get the occasional attempt, but basically no scrap yard will take catalytic converters without a title to the vehicle with matching VIN, and most will want to see the vehic…

Italy is no Denmark but you still require to register before selling you scrap copper.

I think it's a reasonable response for a real problem and refusing to do this due to some idealistic free market principle appears to me to be a sign of fanaticism.

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#199

Post by joquarky »

narrator wrote: post #156
johanvts wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hasn’t the economist of the world figured out a solution to this problem. There has to be a better way when both sides would be better off by just paying the theif double. Some kind of proof of work system to show that you really are crazy enough to do the crime maybe.

This is called prison, but that's pushing the easy button which is strictly forbidden.

Putting people in prison has substantial costs.

Re: An Ohio Valley 100k-watt FM signal is severed in broad daylight

#200

Post by swiftcoder »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #190
kelnos wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a 100% probability of being harmed, though. That's only if you get caught. Most criminals believe they won't get caught.

They are less likely to reoffend if harmed, most crimes are done by repeat offenders.

> They are less likely to reoffend if harmed, most crimes are done by repeat offenders.

Since most current-day legal systems severely limit employment opportunities for former criminals, it's pretty hard to determine whether they would re-offend in a society that didn't inflict continual punishment in this way

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