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Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

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Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#191

Post by pantsforbirds »

dingaling wrote: post #175
pantsforbirds wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except datacenters are actually very low environmental impact. As long as they provide their own power, they have MUCH lower impact than most farms would.

> As long as they provide their own power How is running local gas turbines more efficient than relying on centralised power generation? Even the transport costs of getting kerosene to them is considerable.

In the case of the Stratos / Box Elder County mega-datacenter, they are planning to use gas turbines to run off of the nearby Ruby Pipeline. It's a pretty tidy solution, if you ask me.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#192

Post by pantsforbirds »

raincole wrote: post #140
pantsforbirds wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except datacenters are actually very low environmental impact. As long as they provide their own power, they have MUCH lower impact than most farms would.

First of all I didn't say that we should ban datacenters. The point is that they should benefit the locals one way or another. Requiring them to invest in energy and other infra is a good first step.

Like producing more tax revenue for a county than the rest of the county combined? That payoff allows for insane levels of infrastructure improvement at literally no cost to locals.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#193

Post by daheza »

sheikhnbake wrote: post #168
xnx wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can also impeach

They have impeached already, multiple times.

During his last term yes, during this term no they haven't. They could at least be pushing for this, there's a few republicans on the out of Trumps circle, maybe they could make some movement. Instead they sit around and do nothing, letting the crimes take place with no attempt to even declare it as wrong.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#194

Post by pantsforbirds »

nancyminusone wrote: post #136
cratermoon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the farms! is the new but her emails!

Even unprofitable farms can produce edible food. A datacenter is a machine that uses electricity to make heat and no other physical prouducts. That's a tough justification to make to people who live near one.

How many existing data centers do you think you rely on each day? Almonds do not realistically improve my life in nearly the way the internet does, but also who am I to say whether you should be allowed to farm almonds or build a datacenter?

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#195

Post by vmg12 »

gensym wrote: post #83
vmg12 wrote: post #46

I think its a mistake to fight datacenters and AI. Taking a step back, if the US unilaterally stops producing AI will other countries stop? The answer is clearly no. Datacenters and ai can be built and trained anywhere. If you want control over AI you should want it to be built in your own country where you have political representation. All preventing datacenter buildout will do is ensure that the price remains high…

For people worried about their livelihoods, there's value in slowing AI adoption to give our economy time to transition rather than just throwing a lot of people out of work all at the same time.

Did slowing down factory build-outs stop globalization from gutting the midwest? I think there are direct parallels here. We either automate ourselves or someone else will automate us and we will have no control.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#196

Post by scoofy »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #185
scoofy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason these data centers are getting built in place people don’t want them is because the towns are broke. The city councils know it, but the residents don’t. The entire point of the last 10 years of Strong Towns was talking about municipal finance, infrastructure costs, and the insolvency of the American suburban town. https://youtu.be/tI3kkk2JdoI

Bullshit. The proposed data center in Utah is projected to use more electricity that what the entire state already uses, on an area larger than Manhattan. The entire state of Utah is not broke. Box Elder County is largely a rural community but it is also not broke.

I'm not here to fight about one mega-data center where they are circumventing local control. I'm talking about the dozens and dozens of data centers being proposed and accepted by city councils all over the United States: https://www.datacentermap.com/

There will be some obvious bad deals. I think you're wrong to assume that the county is not broke from a municipal finance perspective. Nibley, Utah residents had their town evaluate by Strong Towns, they were in a fairly tough financial position until about 2015. The idea that you have residents that are even doing these reports mean that you have an electorate that actually cares at all.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#197

Post by chucksta »

Kye wrote: post #174
chucksta wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally people enjoy being around them, looking at them, and eating what they produce. How does HN feel about ai written blogs? Who wants to go stand next to a 30' warehouse?

Most corn is not for eating.

Okay - people like eating popcorn, beef, and driving too.

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#198

Post by insane_dreamer »

everdrive wrote: post #5

Well realistically both are bad. Right now our government is purely dysfunctional, so I'm not sure anyone knows how to fight anything. We have a eunuch Congress, and in response each party just tries to push executive power as far as possible, never once considering that someone they dislike could get elected in the future and use that expanded power in a negative way. I'm sure that right at this moment at least some…

> We have a eunuch Congress,

no, we don't. we have a Congress where the majority party members are cowed into submission by the threat of vehement attacks by the President that are likely to torpedo their re-election if you defy him (Massie being the latest casualty)

that's very different than a powerless Congress; having said that, it's clear that the founders did not see the inherent weakness in their system and what could happen if a president decided to ignore the rules and "sue me"

but to be fair, the constitution was written before the civil war, at which time the powers and reach of the federal government was greatly reduced compared to the present

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#199

Post by dogleash »

gamerslexus wrote: post #176
HDThoreaun wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video is pseudoscience https://blog.andymasley.com/p/contra-benn-jordan-data-center...

The article you linked doesn't do much to refute "data centres are acoustic weapons", just insists that symptoms are explainable by audible noise pollution. Sure, that makes it better?

It's simple. Noise based nuisances from datacenters fall in one of two categories:

A) don't exist, therefore not a concern

B) known to exist, therefore not a concern

Re: Americans don't know how to fight AI so they're fighting data centers

#200

Post by TiredOfLife »

UtopiaPunk wrote: post #181
riversflow wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear bombs and ICBMs aren’t a net positive for society either, but not pursuing them is bad geopolitical strategy.

Maybe I'm a big idiot, but I think nuclear disarmament is a good geopolitical strategy. The USA has treaties in place pursuing that end on a global scale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_disarmament

There is currently a war (largest since WW2) in europe that is a direct result of nuclear disarmament.
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