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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#191

Post by JCTheDenthog »

ceejayoz wrote: post #180
JCTheDenthog wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those are certainly shitty ways to ensure equity. Why are they what you jump to? Because they're effectively what proponents of equity have implemented in practice: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/opinion/white-students-un... >What if we did a better job helping parents with childcare and healthcare? I mean we've already spent trillions on such efforts over the last half century, and the effects have been pretty…

> Because they're effectively what proponents of equity have implemented in practice… So you agree with the goal of equity, but not the approaches taken so far ?

[flagged]

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#192

Post by thewebguyd »

M3L0NM4N wrote: post #131
ryandrake wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Measuring (and funding) schools based on student outcome is fraught because a student's performance / preparedness for the "next level" is not entirely a function of the school. There are other significant parameters, including parental upbringing, home life stability, neighborhood safety, friends, hunger/nutrition, various trauma and abuse, the list goes on. I'm sure it's been studied, but I'd bet "school quality" i…

The number 1 predictor of educational outcome is IQ by a long shot, which is hardly affected by any of the factors you listed. Yes, high IQ kids usually have high IQ parents who are likely to prevent those things, partly because they are likely high income, but none of those are as important as how smart the child is.

The heritability of IQ actually changes based on wealth, so its the other way around. A child from a wealthy family will reach their potential, where one from a poorer family will not. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14629696/)

A child may have the genetic potential but never reach their potential because of outside factors. One's environment shapes one's brain development.

That's why equity is just as important as equality in education. Equity is understanding that children start from different circumstances and may need specific support to actually reach their potential.

Although the biggest factor here would just be for society to make sure no child has an upbringing where food, shelter, other lack of resources are a problem.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#194

Post by econ »

sparqlittlestar wrote: post #132
layer8 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t it run restricted to a single application in kiosk mode? Unless the application itself provides distraction, what would be distracting?

The very light it emits, the liquid glass lensing animations, etc

I recall some research in the TV age. They observed, if the subject is looking into a light source, (be it a camp fire, a screen or a bulb) they go into a kind of sleepwalking mode. They also mentioned the phenomenon was already well documented by hypnotists.

In the early internet days I couldn't help but notice people who read zero books now spend the whole day reading.

I think it means the tool is used the wrong way? Interactive should be e-paper or real paper. Dull cramming or basic reading skills would be a good fit for glowing displays.

Perhaps we even need a device that can do both.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#195

Post by skydhash »

account42 wrote: post #152
mlsu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely actively bad to involve a device in the vast majority of education. And, it’s a purely selfish thing by tech companies to insert themselves into education. A student should not see a computer until college or vocational school unless they are taking e.g a high school programming or electronics class.

Now that's just needlessly extreme in the other direction. Students will be seeing devices much earlier than that just because their peers will use them so it makes sense to educate them on their proper use and dangers much earlier than college. It just doesn't make sense to cram them into every subject because not using one is outdated.

Students also see power drills and cars, and schools don’t use them as part of the curriculum. I have a lot of computing device and still believes in real books and pen or paper for learning anything. The mechanical actions and the physical presence really helps in retention of the materials. Even those TI calculators can be overkill. I’ve only used one in college, and it was for a few exams about polar coordinates and transmission lines, IIRC. For everything else, the simpler scientific calculators were enough. Multiplying matrices and graphing functions doesn’t take that much time at high school and undergraduate level.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#196

Post by hedora »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #168
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

The people working on this aren't idiots. There are people who see massive business opportunities for enriching themselves in privatizing the education system. Some of there points are reasonable, and sometimes they are frauds. Either way, they lobby hard and have a lot of generally Republican politicians in their pockets. Also, teacher pay is terrible in comparison to the job stress and - reasonably and expected - e…

Who's working on this? I think there are some pretty obvious easy fixes, at least for California:

Find a library that still has a copy of the educational plan California used back in the 1970's, and do that.

At the time, we had the best schools in the country. The state is much richer and has much higher income/sales tax rates now than it did back then. I think that should more than make up for the Prop 13 funding disaster, though it might mean moving some cash around in the state budget.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#197

Post by thewebguyd »

swiftcoder wrote: post #181
ceejayoz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

This is why universities have offered what amount to remedial math classes for donkey's years. Even in the early 2000's, if you showed up to Calculus I without sufficient preparation, you'd find yourself bounced to Pre-Calculus by the end of the week.

In 2005 I had to take placement tests before I could even enroll in my classes, so someone who wasn't actually ready for Calculus wouldn't get to enroll in it if they didn't pass the placement tests.

It was all part of the admissions process.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#198

Post by Alifatisk »

Is this really surprising to anyone? Especially the oldies?

I remember decades ago when I started high school. We were all given laptops, but the teachers had a whole lecture on when to use laptops and for what.

One thing that stuck with me was how one of the teachers pointed out that we should still take notes and do our homework on physical notebooks, this is because we learn better that way. Things stick to our memory much more when we write it with our hand compared to writing it on the computer.

We were supposed to use electronics as little as possible until we grasp the subject. Pen and paper is enough in the beginning.

We have truly entered a era where electronic devices is part of our daily life, its now a necessity to have it on us at all times. Of all the places, I would have expected schools to be sensitive towards whats allowed in class and whatnot.

If I could decide, I would have banned all electronic devices in class (there is exceptions of course).

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#199

Post by SoftTalker »

make3 wrote: post #163
kleiba2 wrote: post #28

I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time. For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercise…

blackboards in uni where you can't do anything but just rewrite everything the prof is writing is a nightmarish waste of time, especially for anyone with any kind of attention difficulties please remove the devices from the students but provide slides

If you have attention difficulties perhaps uni isn't the place for you.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#200

Post by duped »

ceejayoz wrote: post #11
StateflowsLabs wrote: post #2

"The surge in math deficiencies after dropping the SAT highlights a systemic issue: grade inflation. Without a standardized baseline like the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA from a high school with relaxed standards looks identical to a 4.0 from a highly rigorous one. Paradoxically, removing test requirements harms underprivileged students the most. Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. In contrast, bu…

> Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. Sports frequently just requires a ball or a place to run. In both scenarios, you can still purchase better equipment/training. There are very expensive, effective SAT prep options out there for the wealthy.

It feels like the problem are the SAT prep courses' existence then
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