Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#191

Post by asdff » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:36 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #186

asdff wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is stopping the Swedes from electing a jackass? They seem smart for now? It happens in Europe too. All these weaknesses are liable for any country in a democratic model where executive is controlled via popular vote. Population is trivial to manipulate. This is the new world. Running to Sweden doesn't change the underlying issue of the ease of manipulating an electorate using technological affordances to capture…

Nothing, but when your spouse turns into an abusive piece of shit, breaking up with them and looking for a new one is the right call. Sure, the new one might turn into one too, but that's no reason to stay with one who is definitely one. Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback. That's the obvious result of Trumpism - when you seek to turn every interaction into a short-term win for you, people simply stop doing…

Run from the US. Create a new seat of power all you want. Putin will put in his manchurian candidate wherever the power lies. The fact this happened to the US is really a byproduct of its global position. So create a new global leader, and that will be the new target for capture via propagandizing the electorate and electing a sympathizer. Running never solves anything. The problem is still the problem, and is not getting addressed.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#192

Post by swader999 » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:36 PM UTC

stackghost wrote: post #148

petcat wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas has entertained the idea of seceding for 150 years. And they would be a G7 country if they did. But they would have to fight a war to do it. USA already went through this once. The only thing really stopping Alberta from leaving is whether or not BC, Ontario, and Quebec are willing to fight a war to stop it. And that gets a lot more complicated if the US also wants Alberta to go independent....

>The only thing really stopping Alberta from leaving is whether or not BC, Ontario, and Quebec are willing to fight a war to stop it. Unlike the individual US states, Alberta never joined Canada. It was not an entity that existed prior to Canada's confederation. Alberta was basically pencil-whipped into existence by carving out a chunk of an already existing territory (the Northwest Territory). Despite American and R…

The implication that this somehow weakens Alberta’s constitutional status is false. Alberta is a full province under the Constitution of Canada with the same constitutional standing as the other provinces.

The Supreme Court has already ruled that Canada and other provinces would be obligated to negotiate terms of separation should a province ever vote to leave in a clear referendum.

Yes, support for leaving is probably at 10-20%. Just having the referendum will build the infrastructure and political machinery for keeping it alive for a long time from the first try. I live here and I'm not a fan of Smith for encouraging it at all.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#193

Post by vkou » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:39 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #191

vkou wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing, but when your spouse turns into an abusive piece of shit, breaking up with them and looking for a new one is the right call. Sure, the new one might turn into one too, but that's no reason to stay with one who is definitely one. Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback. That's the obvious result of Trumpism - when you seek to turn every interaction into a short-term win for you, people simply stop doing…

Run from the US. Create a new seat of power all you want. Putin will put in his manchurian candidate wherever the power lies. The fact this happened to the US is really a byproduct of its global position. So create a new global leader, and that will be the new target for capture via propagandizing the electorate and electing a sympathizer. Running never solves anything. The problem is still the problem, and is not ge…

Democracy in the US is sick at the best of times. It's a fundamental flaw in strong executive presidential republics, doubled down on by the legislatures ability to constantly redistrict in a way that advantages the incumbents, tripled down on by the lack of a plausible mechanism to have a non-confidence motion.

Canada can't solve this problem inside US politics. Only Americans can, at any one of the three boxes. It can only work to disentangle it's critical dependencies, and to protect its own interests.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#194

Post by datsci_est_2015 » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:40 PM UTC

throwaway27448 wrote: post #185

asdff wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why trust anyone? Really what stops a Trump from getting elected anywhere else? The citizens seem smarter or less bigoted? Are you sure that will always be the case given the agitprop in every form of media and internet communication in every language on earth?

True. But we seem like the least trustworthy people on earth at the moment. After israel, anyway. Trump has nothing to do with it.

> Trump has nothing to do with it.

Genuinely, what makes the US untrustworthy if not Trump? I’m curious what I may be missing.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#195

Post by mhb » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:41 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #182

throwaway27448 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of insane they trusted us to begin with. Why?

Why trust anyone? Really what stops a Trump from getting elected anywhere else? The citizens seem smarter or less bigoted? Are you sure that will always be the case given the agitprop in every form of media and internet communication in every language on earth?

> Why trust anyone?

Because comparative advantage.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#196

Post by asdff » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:42 PM UTC

throwaway27448 wrote: post #185

asdff wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why trust anyone? Really what stops a Trump from getting elected anywhere else? The citizens seem smarter or less bigoted? Are you sure that will always be the case given the agitprop in every form of media and internet communication in every language on earth?

True. But we seem like the least trustworthy people on earth at the moment. After israel, anyway. Trump has nothing to do with it.

Israel seems trustworthy in the sense that their priorities and aims are abundantly clear to everyone. People are pissed about Israel for Iran right now, but, I mean, there is a reason why they are attacking Iran right now and not Egypt or Turkey. You go about and poke the bear like Iran has done for decades with Israel, you get these outcomes. Egypt tried to poke the bear but that was decades ago and they've since learned there is nothing to gain there.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#197

Post by fakedang » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:45 PM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #187

throwaway27448 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of insane they trusted us to begin with. Why?

Americans were our brothers. We had been partners for over a hundred years.

I like this analogy - sparring with each other like toddlers do, before realizing that they have a lot in common as they age, like the English language, industrialization, the systemic abuse of natives, Big Oil, the World Wars and racism.

Now that they're older, they're sparring once again, just like siblings do over the parents' estate.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#198

Post by khriss » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:45 PM UTC

throwaway27448 wrote: post #161

khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

It's kind of insane they trusted us to begin with. Why?

Because Trump is a new, and (hopefully!) a one time phenomenon.

He is unique in that he seems to have absolute control over the Republican base which makes all internal party checks fail. The rest is provided by a hyper polarized media landscape and a conservative supreme court majority that seems to be open to radical upheavals. The combination of all three has rendered the constitutional safe guards ineffective. In other words, we seem to have run into an edge case in the US constitution.

The supreme court won't change materially in the near future and likely the polarization will continue, but it's hard to image someone in the future with such an absolute grip on either party. So, hopefully a soft restart of the system in 2028 will be the last of this edge case for a while. That's the hope, anyway!

The two countries have far more in common shared interests than differences, so odds are things will drift back to normal in the future.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#199

Post by jandrewrogers » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:46 PM UTC

switchbak wrote: post #159

bigyabai wrote: post #4

Saab makes excellent AWACS systems, this strikes me as a good choice. It'll be interesting to see if Canada also invests in the Gripen long-term, as a replacement for the aging CF-18 fleet.

The F-35 always seemed like a funny choice for a mainline fighter for Canada. Even the US has invested in many more F-15EXs. Having a Hi/Lo mix makes sense for a larger force, but equipping a smaller force with only exquisite birds doesn't seem to make much sense. Then again, this is Canada - sensible decision making in military procurement just isn't something that happens here. But the economies of scale are such t…

The F-15EX is designed to be a stand-off missile truck that works in tandem with a network of forward-deployed stealth jets. This compensates for the relatively low ordnance load-out of stealth jets. A stealth jet can designate and cue a target from the front using an F-15EX as a missile launcher safely in the back since it is non-stealthy.

The F-15EX isn't a particularly survivable aircraft on its own. It is a plane you'd only use if you have stealth jets and you plan to do air combat at scale. It augments the capabilities of something like an F-35 but isn't something you'd add to your fleet unless you had a lot of stealth aircraft.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#200

Post by asdff » Wed, May 27, 2026, 9:47 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #193

asdff wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Run from the US. Create a new seat of power all you want. Putin will put in his manchurian candidate wherever the power lies. The fact this happened to the US is really a byproduct of its global position. So create a new global leader, and that will be the new target for capture via propagandizing the electorate and electing a sympathizer. Running never solves anything. The problem is still the problem, and is not ge…

Democracy in the US is sick at the best of times. It's a fundamental flaw in strong executive presidential republics, doubled down on by the legislatures ability to constantly redistrict in a way that advantages the incumbents, tripled down on by the lack of a plausible mechanism to have a non-confidence motion. Canada can't solve this problem inside US politics. Only Americans can, at any one of the three boxes. It…

And democracy isn't sick in the UK that elected conservatives to leave from the EU? It isn't sick in Hungary that elected Orban? It isn't sick in Germany where 1/4 of the bundestag is comprised of AfD? Far right is rising in Canada too in recent years (1).

1. https://universityaffairs.ca/features/northern-shift/