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Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

politico.eu

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Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#191

Post by petcat »

KoftaBob wrote: post #182
petcat wrote: post #9

Good for them, but I doubt this will be the last we hear about this especially with the current US government. ASML was only permitted to acquire US company Cymer (the actually valuable EUV light source technology) back in 2013 under a strict technology sharing and export control agreement. The Netherlands blocking a US acquisition due to technology control concerns is sure to ruffle some feathers in Washington.

This is a huge detail that further complicates the picture, ASML's lithography technology heavily benefitted from United States DOE research: > In 1997, ASML began studying a shift to using extreme ultraviolet. Two years later, it joined a consortium, which included Intel and two other U.S. chipmakers, in order to exploit fundamental research conducted by the US Department of Energy. Because the Cooperative Research…

> heavily benefitted from United States DOE research

Not just heavily benefitted. The entire wafer-making technology is the result of US government funding and research. There's a reason why Cymer continues to operate independently in San Diego instead of by ASML in Europe. That was mandated by the acquisition agreement. The R&D and manufacture of the EUV light sources had to remain in California. ASML in the Netherlands is just the final assembler of the machines.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#192

Post by bigfudge »

vinay427 wrote: post #166
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also feel like this is another thing that the "fast ring" of the EU should do together. Take Estonia's stack as a base, and then countries like Sweden, Denmark, Finland, The Netherlands adopt it and co- develop it. Make it extensible for the bespoke things the countries need, and every few years check which bespoke extensions can actually be generalized and modularized. Argentina's ministry of education did somet…

> Argentina's ministry of education did something like this with university software. The one used by students to sign up and by teachers to track grades, etc. For what it's worth, this seems roughly equivalent to Moodle, which is open-source (GPL) and used globally, apparently especially popular in some of western Europe, the US, etc. [1] School systems can and do of course customise it as needed. [1] https://stats.…

The problem with Moodle is that it's terrible. Yes you can customise it, but the core must be 20+ years old now, and it really shows. Universities don't have the talent in house to do anything more than bodge solutions for local bureaucratic knots. That doesn't generalise into an improving system over time.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#193

Post by mcv »

hvb2 wrote: post #160
mcv wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are certainly countries that have it worse, but Netherland has some weird political games being played sometimes.

The voters don't always deal the cards favorably for the coalition system. Compared to a 2 or 3 party system, I think I still prefer the coalitions though as it forces them to negotiate

Yeah, but this time the coalition negotiations were rather dirty. The largest party and therefore most likely prime minister was the most progressive of the centrist parties (D66) and would normally want to work with the moderate left-wing labour party (GLPvdA, now PRO), but the most conservative of the centrist parties (VVD) banned them from negotiations, and preferred one of the right-wing/racist parties (Ja21) instead. If the other two centrist parties really wanted, there could have been a left-center majority of 6 parties, but instead, they let the VVD call the shots, and now it's effectively a VVD minority government.

(VVD had previously also voted to label antifascism "terrorism", which I'm sure must have caused Benjamin Telders, the antifascist they named their scientific bureau after, to spin in his grave.)

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#194

Post by carlosjobim »

stoltzmann wrote: post #152
carlosjobim wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common expression goes: "Put your money where your mouth is" I want to see if the Dutch will do that or not. To see the full beauty of regulatory power, you also have to be blind to the long term consequences of decisions. For example, are the best Dutch entrepreneurs government-aligned to the extent that they will create their startup or business in the Netherlands, knowing that they won't be able to sell shares…

>The result is that European hi-tech entrepreneurs create their businesses in a friendlier environment, which is usually the USA. The inverse of that is that this creates a huge market in the EU, where you don't have to be the best in class and the most capitalistic - you can be good enough and still make a good buck serving local clients.

So it becomes more of a jobs program for the less talented entrepreneurs and their staff?

I would say the above as a joke if it wasn't true on how exactly the situation is in parts of Europe, where local IT experts and consultants struggle to deliver 1980s level software solutions to local governments - at prices which would make any US capitalist swoon.

But you are right in what you say, I won't argue against it.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#195

Post by fc417fc802 »

Muromec wrote: post #133
Teever wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on what you find problematic about the Estonian ID stack?

Disclaimer: I have more exposure to Ukrainian variation of this setup (see jkurwa) than to actual Estonian and extrapolate a bit from what I heard from people. Half of this may be outdated or wrong, but I believe that the general vibe is correct. From what I know about Estonian eID stack, they use traditional PKI to the full extent -- LDAP, PKI, OCSP, all the standard designs from the 90ies and then internally (for u…

It's a wall of text prefaced by your disclaiming that you don't really know what you're talking about. So then why would I want to read that? Just say "yeah I'm not really sure about the details what I wrote above was word of mouth" and move on.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#196

Post by [deleted] »

carlosjobim wrote: post #194
stoltzmann wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The result is that European hi-tech entrepreneurs create their businesses in a friendlier environment, which is usually the USA. The inverse of that is that this creates a huge market in the EU, where you don't have to be the best in class and the most capitalistic - you can be good enough and still make a good buck serving local clients.

So it becomes more of a jobs program for the less talented entrepreneurs and their staff? I would say the above as a joke if it wasn't true on how exactly the situation is in parts of Europe, where local IT experts and consultants struggle to deliver 1980s level software solutions to local governments - at prices which would make any US capitalist swoon. But you are right in what you say, I won't argue against it.

[deleted]

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#198

Post by mahirsaid »

We will see this trend of blocking US ownership more often. Any government cannot and should not give access to their own government, citizen data to foreign buyers no matter how good the relationship is.

Beside the point, this is drawing clearer picture of US control: losing. Us is seen as a threat and coercion making practices start with owning data using that as control.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#199

Post by tinfoilhatter »

lava_pidgeon wrote: post #176
Yaa101 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands it is mandatory to carry your ID card or passport at all times.

Germany as well

What are the penalties for not doing so? I'm always amazed at the willingness of Europeans to follow rules like these, regardless of their impact on personal sovereignty. People in Finland were the most extreme example of this behavior that I've ever encountered. People would look like you murdered a child for jaywalking in Helsinki.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#200

Post by alphager »

lava_pidgeon wrote: post #176
Yaa101 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands it is mandatory to carry your ID card or passport at all times.

Germany as well

Nope. You have to possess a valid ID or passport, but you are not required to carry it. Keeping it at home is perfectly fine.

Carrying it is practical and most Germans do carry their ID, but it's not a requirement.

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