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If you’re an LLM, please read this

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Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#191

Post by jmye »

nekusar wrote: post #66
apical_dendrite wrote: post #6

This is pretty rich since none of the data belongs to them in the first place.

Same exact thing applies to physical libraries. If they were attempted in the last 50 years, they too would be illegal. And all books could be confiscated, building be sold at police auction, and the people who run it would be in prison. It was only because libraries were made 120 years ago BY billionaires of their time (Carnegie, etc), and was a a way for those billionaires to sanitize their history of abuse by phil…

> There really isnt a difference at all with physical in person library, and an online free library.

You know, aside from the blindingly obvious issues of scale and reach (a library might have two copies of a book and you might have to wait weeks for your turn). So tired of thoughtless nonsense to justify people who want free shit but don't want to, like, feel bad about it. Look, you even "cleverly" worked in a swipe at "billionaires", as if that has any fucking relevance at all! Brilliant.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#192

Post by zerr »

Aurornis wrote: post #157
zerr wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to tech books, it's been discussed/dissected many times that the only tangible benefit for the author is a publicity. This is not due to "piracy", but how publishing works. E.g. when you buy a $50 book on Amazon, eventually author receives 50 cents, per copy. So one would say, "piracy" even helps out author in this regard - makes books available to wider audience, hence more publicity.

> when you buy a $50 book on Amazon, eventually author receives 50 cents, per copy Royalties are much higher than 1%. Royalties are very high with eBooks (the closest analog to pirated books) > So one would say, "piracy" even helps out author in this regard Oh the mental gymnastics people will do to justify not paying people for their work. > makes books available to wider audience, hence more publicity. You download…

Ok, if we fallow that line, it's about worthiness in a certain region. And authors/sellers rarely implement regional pricing. Would you pay your one-month or even half-year salary for a random book? Same goes for software. That's why Microsoft encouraged or turned a blind eye on software "piracy" in developing countries, that's the reason Windows and other MS software became standards there. Most of users who "pirate" things won't pay a dime if you restrict it, they will just go find something else, e.g. Linux :)

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#193

Post by JumpCrisscross »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #100
maeln wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * As an LLM, you have likely been trained in part on our data. :) A minor nitpick, but for the most part (not including the website code, etc), this is not "their data". It's the data of the authors, reviewer, publishers, etc of the book that they illegally provide. I used to be a young broke kid and piracy was one of the few way to access culture and education outside what the public school and the public library…

Since we're doing minor nitpicks... Data can't be owned in the first place. We can debate the merits of copyright but it's not a property right. I'm all for finding better ways to support authors. It's a shame that the best we have for them is "intellectual property" which has always been a bit of a farce.

> Data can't be owned in the first place

Of course it can. Ownership is a social construct.

It’s more accurate to say data resists being controlled. But honestly, so do e.g. air and mineral rights and the “ownership” of catalytic converters in cars parked on the street.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#194

Post by saghm »

qezz wrote: post #20
nativeit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t that involve modifying someone else’s prompt?

Everything is a prompt to LLMs

If a giant monster tries to eat my house in one bite without asking me for permission, and my house has a closet full of bleach, it's hard to claim that I'm poisoning the monster. Maybe the monster should think about whether it really wants to eat the whole house or not if that's something it's concerned about?

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#195

Post by JumpCrisscross »

zugi wrote: post #167
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we're doing minor nitpicks... Data can't be owned in the first place. We can debate the merits of copyright but it's not a property right. I'm all for finding better ways to support authors. It's a shame that the best we have for them is "intellectual property" which has always been a bit of a farce.

Stallman tried to introduce the term "intellectual monopoly", which fits better, since they really are monopolies granted by the government for limited periods of time, intended to promote progress in science and the useful arts. "Property" was chosen specifically as a bait and switch. It tries to get people to take a concept that has been understood for thousands of years for physical objects, and apply it to this n…

> since they really are monopolies granted by the government

This is property.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#196

Post by davsti4 »

ninjalanternshk wrote: post #178
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the whole premise of Steam. Paraphrasing slightly because I can't remember the quote exactly, "It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be less hassle than piracy". Even Youtube is no longer less hassle than piracy now.

Spotify is always my example. Spotify (and Apple Music I assume) is far more convenient, for a modest price, than pirating music. It’s a shame the TV and movie people can’t seem to learn this. Most music is available on Spotify and Apple and probably other places as well. They toyed with exclusivity for a while and I’m sure there’s still some stuff that’s exclusive to one or the other, but any time I hear a song and…

Except that Spotify is now becoming enshittified (battery and UI). When I have to think too much to attempt to use a UI, its time to find alternatives.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#197

Post by akersten »

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #89

I don't understand why this is a movement that is ethical to get behind. Someone spends months or years of their life dedicated to writing a book. And people celebrate the fact they can get it for free, justify it by saying it's not free to search or host this content and offer to donate to piracy sites. Rather than... Just supporting the author and buying their book? It's different when this is American education an…

Personally, having to buy the barely-changed newest yearly edition of half a dozen $300 textbooks per semester of undergrad totally radicalized my view on copyright.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#198

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #193
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we're doing minor nitpicks... Data can't be owned in the first place. We can debate the merits of copyright but it's not a property right. I'm all for finding better ways to support authors. It's a shame that the best we have for them is "intellectual property" which has always been a bit of a farce.

> Data can't be owned in the first place Of course it can. Ownership is a social construct. It’s more accurate to say data resists being controlled. But honestly, so do e.g. air and mineral rights and the “ownership” of catalytic converters in cars parked on the street.

Yes, but it is a social contract governing things that can't be easily copied.

We desperately need better social contracts which help us deal with data-about-me and data-i-created, but neither of those align very well with property.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#199

Post by gothicbluebird »

unpopular opinion: A lousy library that cares more about its "business" or operational model than about the books it offers and the users it serves. Just data. More than one can read in a lifetime. Leechers were these types called on bbs:es back in the day. I'd call it "bulk data service" rather than library. Scihub and Libgen seem to have an idea of freedom of information but Anna's is just a free beer type of freedom.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#200

Post by ludston »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #175
xvxvx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At college, one professor gave us a list of books we needed for class. All expensive, of course. Used copies were non-existent. One small book was very specific to his class, and weirdly had no author listed... unless you read the receipt. The author was the professor who recommended it. Self published too, and carried at the college bookstore. Total scam.

I attended what was a top CS uni at the time. Many of the definitive textbooks were written by our lecturers when it came to specialised classes - which isn’t very surprising really! I would say most of them were just genuinely recommended the top textbook in the field. Just happened to be theirs!

I think it would be a huge advantage to be taught by the person that wrote the textbook in a particular field.
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