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Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

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Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we care about privacy" Yes, yes I do. but I also live in a society that requires trust to function. making a tool the obliterates that trust(genAI imagery pipelines) then creating a tool that makes it trivial for normal people to remove any hint of controls over said trust eroding system is, toxic. I get the argument about not putting in fingerprints that identify users, Good I agree. But this also removes the thing…

> No really, why would I _need_ to remove a watermark for _legitimate_ purposes? When removing the watermark is easy, a very legitimate purpose of making the code to do it publicly available is to make a public demonstration that it's easy to do. As for content use cases, suppose someone is using AI to modify their appearance because they're being unjustly targeted by an oppressive government. That government natural…

> suppose someone is using AI to modify their appearance because they're being unjustly targeted by an oppressive government

Then use a mask like everyone else. digital mask, one that obscures.

which is my main point, no, there isn't a legitimate need.

realtime avatars don't generally have invisible watermarks, also they are running from your machine, otherwise you've got a (normally credit card) trail to your front door. plus a video stream

also if you are generating stuff from a public provider, then tracing people isn't that hard to do.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#192
post #7

There's an underappreciated comment in the other thread about SynthID and OpenAI [0] that captures what (IMO) the hacker ethos on this should be. We care about privacy, we should not accept tools that barcode our every digital move. (note that the counter of "well, they don't do that yet " is not particularly convincing) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48200060

Even if you remove a watermark, the companies still have a record of which images they have generated and for whom. Even if you remove the obvious watermarks, all major image generators are using steganography to embed hidden information that you can't be sure were removed. This is a type of one-sided arms race where one player gets to be invisible if they want to.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#193

I think AI watermarks are kind of a lost cause anyway. I'd be more interested in some kind of trusted Non-AI watermark. This is something that could get integrated into cameras for example. However, considering how much AI-processing we already have in "normal" photos, it will be difficult to decide where to draw the line.

That would be great, but I always wonder: how do you prevent people from photographing an AI generating image through the 'legitimizing' camera?

Maybe LIDAR or IR focus could help with that.

But then again, the photo itself would be authentic in this case strictly speaking.

It's not an easy problem. If I had a good solution, I would have tried to monetize it already ;)

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#194
post #7

There's an underappreciated comment in the other thread about SynthID and OpenAI [0] that captures what (IMO) the hacker ethos on this should be. We care about privacy, we should not accept tools that barcode our every digital move. (note that the counter of "well, they don't do that yet " is not particularly convincing) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48200060

Even if you remove a watermark, the companies still have a record of which images they have generated and for whom. Even if you remove the obvious watermarks, all major image generators are using steganography to embed hidden information that you can't be sure were removed. This is a type of one-sided arms race where one player gets to be invisible if they want to.

Do they still work if you apply something like a filter or additional layers on top? Or add a subtle blur, etc.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Hacker ethos is mainly about how things work: sharing, openness. I'm not entirely sure how hiding that something is GenAI fits in here. It surely doesn't have anything to do with Privacy though.

I disagree. Its mainly about having technical control and freedom. Reverse engineering how things work feels like peak hacker ethos. You don't have control of something if you can't remove it. I think ethical considerations were always a bit secondary to technical power when it came to so called "hacker ethos". After all, instructions on how to remove watermarks definitely feels like the sort of thing that would have…

There's a thing called Hacker ethic which used to be referenced quite frequently in the past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic

Probably it's worth reminding of also considering we're on HN here... ;)

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#196

I find the casual malevolence of this kind of thing breathtaking. Every time someone raises potential issues with AI misuse, they're dismissed as fear-mongering while a host of people immediately rush to demonstrate that not only is the fear justified, it's gleefully anticipated under the vaguest colour of lofty ideals. People want to dismiss the potential harms of deepfakes while also excitedly releasing the deepfak…

the genie is out of the bottle. the sooner you let go of the notion that it can be kvetched out of existence the less frustrated you'll feel.

for example, 35 years ago PGP was a "casually malevolent" thing, enabling terrorists and pedophiles to email each other with impunity. the effort to make math illegal had (very predictably) failed and now we have encryption everywhere. did the world end? how do you feel about Chat Control and numerous other initiatives to roll it all back?

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#197
post #17
post #7

There's an underappreciated comment in the other thread about SynthID and OpenAI [0] that captures what (IMO) the hacker ethos on this should be. We care about privacy, we should not accept tools that barcode our every digital move. (note that the counter of "well, they don't do that yet " is not particularly convincing) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48200060

Accepting blindly destroying the concept of thruth should not be the hacker ethos either.

AI watermarks only give the illusion of maintaining the concept of truth. The government and corporations will still have access to un-watermarked models to destroy the truth with.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#198
post #78
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When that idea was originated, the advice was more like: "Don't trust what you see on the Internet. Trust instead what you read in a reputable daily newspaper, or Peter Jennings or Tom Brokaw on the nightly news, or BBC World News." Today, the Internet, especially the part which is not trustable, has nearly finished killing most of the "trustworthy" news sources, by outcompeting them for ad dollars - by being way bet…

This isn't just ads, trust in the mainstream media, itself, is very low [1], deservedly so in my opinion. The continuous lies by omission, the outright incorrect headlines/articles that they edit after a day, the lock-step messaging, alignment, and avoidance of topics, pushed by their respective political parties/billionaire owners (6 companies own 90% of media [2]), made me switch to more independent journalists. [1…

As bad as it is, is still miles better than Internet posts by randos.

Which independent journalists do you like?

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#199

Why? Don’t do this. Society is built on an implicit assumption of trust. You will erode the foundation that enables any success you might have in the short term.

>Why? Don’t do this. Society is built on an implicit assumption of trust. You will erode the foundation that enables any success you might have in the short term.

would you say the same thing about a ROT13 breaker, or would you recognize how laughably naive that sounds?

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