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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

dailyprincetonian.com

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#191

Post by mystraline »

echelon wrote: post #33
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Combined with the increasing acceptance of shoplifting [1] and unprecedented corruption and criminality among our national leaders, it's hard not to read this as a moral page turning on American culture. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/04/hasan-piker-jia-to...

> Combined with the increasing acceptance of shoplifting It's the K-shaped economy. Those not participating in the upsides are electing to either not participate in the system at all or to destroy it. Most people think Luigi Mangione is a hero. We had a good post-WWII run. We had factories, then globalization. Massive growth for all economic backgrounds for several generations. But the world caught up. Now the averag…

> Most people think Luigi Mangione is a hero.

Given that UHC started approving lots of procedures and drugs after the assassination shows that their medical insurance mass fraud did happen and paid off... And they quit it.

And then they were sued by shareholders for approving said procedures. Boo fucking hoo the shareholders lost a buck.

Note that insurance fraud ALWAYS targets the individual policyholder, and NEVER the insurance company.

If Luigi did it, then he should be significantly credited for a massive harm reduction by using violence to ensure less fraud perpetrated by UHC.

The US government wouldnt do their fucking job (investigation amd criminal charges of insurance fraud). So a citizen had to.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#192

Post by batch12 »

twobitshifter wrote: post #178
lokar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AIUI, these schools see their mission as training the next generation of leaders and elites. They aim for people with strong abilities, and moral character. And, the way you guide youth to act in a certain way is by treating them that way. If you want them to be trustworthy, you trust them. This is not a totally fringe idea.

You can game theory it out and see that everyone gets to cheat and nobody reports is the best outcome for the group. Defectors must be punished in some way or perhaps the profs are not carrying through with punishments for cheaters.

Is it though if the value of the degree for the overall group is collectively diminished?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#193

Post by lovemenot »

jdlshore wrote: post #133
afavour wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don’t act honourably because that will “get you ahead”. You act honourably because it is right. As much as I would like to believe that’s true I don’t think it is. You act honourably because society incentivises you to. To act dishonourably is to be disadvantaged, to be shamed, to be cast out. That is the part that’s missing today.

I see where you’re coming from, but something about this framing bothers me. I think acting honorably has to come from within. It’s something that people need to do regardless of rewards or incentives. Now, how we create a culture that actually does so… that has to come from society. But, imo, if people only act honorably because they’re rewarded for it, and they don’t when no one is looking… that’s not acting honora…

You can both be right. I live in a high trust society (Japan), but was raised elsewhere. When I first came here, there were times I had to suppress my instinct to take opportunistic advantage. That was intrinsic motivation.

Later, I had adapted to the culture around me. Such instincts rarely arise as it had become extrinsic.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#194

Post by JCTheDenthog »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #170
ericmay wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is bad, someone who cheats on a test or someone who rats out their friend for cheating on a test? Obviously the first. How is this even a question?

> Obviously the first. The more usual perspective would be that they're both bad.

Only in certain fucked up moral systems. Though I guess Confucianism would be one of those:

>The Duke of She said to Confucius, “Among my people there is one we call ‘Upright Gong.’ When his father stole a sheep, he reported him to the authorities.”

>Confucius replied, “Among my people, those who we consider ‘upright’ are different from this: fathers cover up for their sons, and sons cover up for their fathers. ‘Uprightness’ is to be found in this.”

-from the Confucian Analects

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#195

Post by jvanderbot »

Aurornis wrote: post #163
john_strinlai wrote: post #5

huh, i had no idea princeton specifically disallowed proctors, and instead relied on an honor system. seems... like a poorly thought out system, especially given: " 29.9 percent of respondents reported that they had cheated on an assignment or exam during their time at Princeton. 44.6 percent of senior respondents reported knowledge of Honor Code violations that they chose not to report. " crazier is the people prote…

A couple of my friends teach university classes. Mostly undergrad. I get to hear some of their interesting stories when we game together. My impression is that there was a sharp shift around COVID. Doing classes over Zoom with a talking head broke the connection they had with their professors and other students. College felt closer to a video game operated through your screen than a community. When I was in college n…

If AI is going to steal all white collar work - why use AI to get a degree to do white collar work, paying both the AI and the college for it? Wild times.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#196

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

Lucasoato wrote: post #165
jiqiren wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't at Princeton, but I remember blatant cheating going on and 'study groups' in CS classes that were mere passing around of completed code. (1997-2001) I'd asked them what they expected would happen when they tried to get jobs or landed one. Like how do you fake work? They just said all jobs are group-based like their study group. (Keep in mind they were soliciting my code as their group was struggling to find…

Maybe he's happier managing a bagel store rather than dealing with Kubernetes.

the longer i stay, the more i think "amen to that".

...yeah, yeah, greener grass, i know.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#197

Post by amirhirsch »

neilv wrote: post #166
wps wrote: post #27

I've sat in classes where people at my table genuinely took pictures of the exam while the professor's back was turned (being kind to us and giving us useful information on the board) and uploaded the entire exam to the Gemini app. Cheating is all around disheartening and is now incredibly easy with all the free multi-modal models around. Real active proctoring is needed and devices need to be confiscated during exam…

I'm very interested in how this cheating is perceived by other students. There is no peer pressure not to cheat? Students aren't considered sketchy or jerky for cheating? Being seen cheating has no adverse affect on their ability to date, to join group projects, to join student startups, etc.?

At least in my experience (MIT ’06) many of the people most comfortable gaming academics ended up in finance.

I've always felt that it was these kind of folks that caused the 2008 financial crisis

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#198

Post by traderj0e »

rosstex wrote: post #119

I was a TA at Princeton ~5 years ago, and I had forgotten about the honor code until reading this. Yes it's true, we did not proctor exams, and students seemed to take pride in it. On every test, you got the names/signatures of those sitting next to you. But also, I had a student who was accused of not putting his pencil down when the test had concluded, and the bureaucratic process to fight the accusation was so cri…

Hm, this answers something I was wondering, how do accusations work with no proctors or other evidence

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#199

Post by FeteCommuniste »

jvanderbot wrote: post #195
Aurornis wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of my friends teach university classes. Mostly undergrad. I get to hear some of their interesting stories when we game together. My impression is that there was a sharp shift around COVID. Doing classes over Zoom with a talking head broke the connection they had with their professors and other students. College felt closer to a video game operated through your screen than a community. When I was in college n…

If AI is going to steal all white collar work - why use AI to get a degree to do white collar work, paying both the AI and the college for it? Wild times.

For the legacy clout of the big college name?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#200

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #93
remarkEon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you with 100% certainty that the American Right did not elect Bill Clinton.

I'm no fan of Clinton, but pretending that he's even remotely as bad as Trump only confirms how leftists see people on the right.

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