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Heat pump sales rise across Europe

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Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#191

Post by pojzon »

klinch wrote: post #76
pojzon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) To make it really green and viable -> you „need” solar installation 2) To have solar installation you have to abaid to painfully stupid legistlation 3) In winter pump is as green as the diesel generator that produces energy for it to run

I'm sure you already made up your mind about heat pumps and that I can't convince you otherwise. But for other readers, let me add some thoughts to your points. 1) well, there's a grid. So as long as someone somewhere on your continent produces green energy it is viable and green. 2) arguable. Depends on your legislation. 3) Again, there's a grid. And even considering the worst case of no renewable sources at all: A…

We are 40 years in back when it comes to grid infrastructure investmets. Grid is not some magical thing that has infinite capacity and transfer speed and costs.

The reason why powerplants have to be strategically distributed around the country and have to consist of multiple different power geration sources.

Cyting Germany’s cancelor „Going full green was a strategic mistake”

Ps. Heat pump is as effective as the heat source it can use..

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#192

Post by toasty228 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #181
toasty228 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [it] become[s] cheaper than gas heating within 11 to 14 years They also always stop the savings estimates right before the expected lifespan of the heatpump, at which point you have to buy a new unit which destroys the actual savings

At the moment, heat pumps are mostly retrofitted to homes not designed for heat pumps, which adds to the cost. You can't compare that work to a future heat pump swap which is a much smaller job.

I'm building a house right now, it's much cheaper to invest in insulation, well designed window placement and passive cooling (ground/air or ground/water exchangers) than heat pumps and other high tech solutions.

Heat pumps are like pellet stoves in Europe a few years ago, the day the subsidies go away nobody wants them anymore.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#193

Post by ProllyInfamous »

superxpro12 wrote: post #188
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #43

For anybody in TVA's electricity networks (mostly: Tennessee): they offer an annual promotion to single-family homeowners only to purchase an $1800 AO heatpump waterheater for only $250 . Maths: 85% discount on fancy new waterheater, which also dehumidifies and cools your house (passive result of heatpump). TVA usually offers this promotion between Thanksgiving and NYE. You can order online from HomeDepot, or walk in…

In MD, they had rebates for gas-fired instant hot water heaters and tanked heat pump water heaters, but not electric instant water heaters. Makes no sense...

>not electric instant water heaters

The reason the electric utility offers this huge rebate is because they are attempting to reduce their peaking load delivery — a tankless instahot peaks exponentially more than a resistive-heater.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#194

Post by ProllyInfamous »

blitzar wrote: post #157
ethansinjin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important caveat: > You must swap out an old electric unit; switching from gas to electric doesn't qualify.[0] That’s a bummer; totally would have done this otherwise [0] https://www.hotwater.com/water-heater-rebates/tva-heat-pump-...

Go to the dump and find an old electric unit, slap it in the corner of your garage?

There is small chance of this working. The address lookup (when ordering) verifies through public records how your waterheating occurs.

So would only work if no public records of your house is available (and then would probably become much more complicated with paperwork).

Using Zillow/Trulia, you can verify if your house's information is publicly available (under features/amenities).

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#196

Post by quickthrowman »

superxpro12 wrote: post #188
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #43

For anybody in TVA's electricity networks (mostly: Tennessee): they offer an annual promotion to single-family homeowners only to purchase an $1800 AO heatpump waterheater for only $250 . Maths: 85% discount on fancy new waterheater, which also dehumidifies and cools your house (passive result of heatpump). TVA usually offers this promotion between Thanksgiving and NYE. You can order online from HomeDepot, or walk in…

In MD, they had rebates for gas-fired instant hot water heaters and tanked heat pump water heaters, but not electric instant water heaters. Makes no sense...

An electric tankless water heater uses around four times more energy than a heat pump water heater.

Natural gas water heaters don’t use electricity.

That’s why the utility is offering rebates on them and not tankless (or tank) electric water heaters. The rebates are incentives to reduce peak electrical demand, which a tankless electric water heater does not do.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#197

Post by ProllyInfamous »

pojzon wrote: post #195
apexalpha wrote: post #159

Remember: every heat pump is a semi-permanent move to electricity over other fuels. People almost never go back. This isn't just a temporary improvement.

Interesting looking at how EV sales plumented.

>how EV sales plummeted

This was because the US federal rebate disappeared, mostly (no?).

----

IMHO, hybrid electric vehicles make much more sense (range, refueling, infrastructure) – unless your local-only.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#198

Post by rsynnott »

pojzon wrote: post #195
apexalpha wrote: post #159

Remember: every heat pump is a semi-permanent move to electricity over other fuels. People almost never go back. This isn't just a temporary improvement.

Interesting looking at how EV sales plumented.

... They didn't. Globally, and in the EU and China, they're rising fairly healthily (the EU did have a ~flat year in 2024, but 2025 and so far '26 have resumed growth). They're down a little in the US, but the US is a particularly awkward market for them (preference for large cars, and domestic manufacturers are rather behind the curve).

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#199

Post by quickthrowman »

stephen_g wrote: post #133
jakozaur wrote: post #8

A heat pump could win as the best HVAC technology, though a better drilling for ground-sourced ones. Just a shallow drilling (up to 100m) that works in retrofit mode, such as drilling from the basement, would be a great upgrade: - No outdoor unit that looks awful in many settings - works well, even in the coldest winter, without a spike in electricity usage, COP 5 - very reliable with long durability - super quiet, n…

The 'outdoor unit that looks awful' is an interesting quirk especially with US equipment - most Japanese and European residential units actually look fine, I'm not sure why American ones have tended to look especially ugly. I notice this with electrical stuff too - things like switchboards etc. in residential and light commercial installations we have quite neat stuff that's usually quite streamlined and in light whi…

The IEEE and ASTM decided that ANSI 61 Gray is the color that all low-voltage (under 1000V) switchgear should be painted.

https://blog.se.com/datacenter/2013/04/09/two-shades-of-grey...

Electrical panels are installed in mechanical/electrical rooms or outdoors, there’s zero point in having a cream colored panelboard cover or enclosure. The coating is to protect the metal, not for aesthetics.

Colored conduit is available, but it’s more expensive and specifically used for different low-voltage (under 50V) control wiring, like red for fire alarm wiring, blue for BAS wiring, and so on.

Re: Heat pump sales rise across Europe

#200

Post by quickthrowman »

cyberax wrote: post #87
crote wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is of course to get a communal system. As a bonus, drilling one giant loop is significantly cheaper than drilling hundreds of smaller ones.

It doesn't work this way. Dense cities just don't have enough space for geothermal heating. It really works for single-family homes only, or maybe just a slightly more dense areas. Not to mention that city infrastructure is WAY too expensive to build, anywhere. You'll spend more money on planning than on doing the actual construction.

https://mncifa.mn.gov/heights-geothermal-district

Granted, this system is being installed on the grounds of a former 112 acre country club that is being redeveloped, so it’s more of a greenfield project than slapping a geothermal loop in a central business district, but it’s a geothermal district heating and cooling system in a city.

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