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Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

economist.com

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Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#191

Post by prawn »

port11 wrote: post #184
prawn wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to explain to my young teenage son what he misses by playing a near-perpetual game like Fortnite. In the years that he might spend in that, my equivalent time was put into dozens of games across various categories, and memorable levels, stories and moments. I miss those days where the measure of success was having someone play the game at all and enjoy it, not how long they might be locked into your product to…

The game he’s playing is different from what you expect, speaking as a former LoL addict. Fortnite is barely interesting when compared to most other games, but the skill progression and fast pace make it hard to put down. I think that’s where League gets you as well. New champions. New items. Oops, just redid the skill tree. Oh hey, balance changes. All while you’re trying to go up in rank. It feels like work — and h…

I've played it with him and can appreciate a lot of things about it. But what he finds exciting (new gimmicks, mostly), I find annoying. I liked my usual guns and favourite haunts!

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#192

Post by [deleted] »

pixl97 wrote: post #113
afavour wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one says “I can’t live without Instagram” literally. That's a straw man argument. I never said they were. > There are even studies that show that it makes their users depressed. What percentage of the population do you think are in the habit of reading academic studies about the effects of the products they use? It all feels reminiscent of cigarette smoking. The damage was very well known yet people continued to…

I don't believe the above user is here to have a well thought out discussion, they just want to tell the world how much better they are than the social media addicts.

[deleted]

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#193

Post by [deleted] »

pixl97 wrote: post #113
afavour wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one says “I can’t live without Instagram” literally. That's a straw man argument. I never said they were. > There are even studies that show that it makes their users depressed. What percentage of the population do you think are in the habit of reading academic studies about the effects of the products they use? It all feels reminiscent of cigarette smoking. The damage was very well known yet people continued to…

I don't believe the above user is here to have a well thought out discussion, they just want to tell the world how much better they are than the social media addicts.

[deleted]

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#194

Post by [deleted] »

pixl97 wrote: post #113
afavour wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one says “I can’t live without Instagram” literally. That's a straw man argument. I never said they were. > There are even studies that show that it makes their users depressed. What percentage of the population do you think are in the habit of reading academic studies about the effects of the products they use? It all feels reminiscent of cigarette smoking. The damage was very well known yet people continued to…

I don't believe the above user is here to have a well thought out discussion, they just want to tell the world how much better they are than the social media addicts.

[deleted]

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#195

Post by port11 »

pembrook wrote: post #189
port11 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not pretend like all drugs are equally addictive, or that some tech products aren’t even more so. You’re comparing TikTok to crack, but it’s much more like coming off E, where your life has no sense of pleasure or happiness for weeks/months (anhedonia, I think it’s called), and you’re left on edge for any source of contentment.

So you believe clinically diagnosable Anhedonia and ecstasy withdrawal is...similar to what happens if a teenager isn't allowed to watch tiktok for a few days...hrmmm. I'm just astonished how hard all of the supposedly rational engineering minds of hackernews are falling for this classic moral panic. The crowd of mindless pitchforks is cringe. It must be a cognitive gymnastics that makes people here feel more importa…

Come on, that’s not a fair take. Most of us build unimportant and mediocre things at best, but TikTok is especially designed for addiction, shortening of attention spans, and making you come back.

Instagram was supposedly the same, with Meta internally knowing that. They said it themselves, the teenagers couldn’t stop using Instagram even if they wanted to. I mean, isn’t that addiction?

I don’t need to feel important. I’m an addict trying to stay away from my triggers. It’s not Instagram, but I also know how that one feels, because I had an account for years. Of course I’m not saying it’s exactly like a drug — any drug —, but that to dismiss the very real, very negative design of these tools is also folly. They hijack the same brain chemistry, to similar results, and a different scale of recovery.

No, developers aren’t special. Nobody in tech is. But Instagram themselves, in their own document, are basically admitting to behaving like a very capable dealer of a neural drug.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#196

Post by port11 »

ceheaaf wrote: post #187
port11 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game he’s playing is different from what you expect, speaking as a former LoL addict. Fortnite is barely interesting when compared to most other games, but the skill progression and fast pace make it hard to put down. I think that’s where League gets you as well. New champions. New items. Oops, just redid the skill tree. Oh hey, balance changes. All while you’re trying to go up in rank. It feels like work — and h…

I have ~13,000 hours in DotA (and several thousand in other strategy games, and an erstwhile career in game development). I'm a noob, the depth of the game is still unfathomable to me. Every time I sit down to play, the game feels richer, more nuanced. The minds I encounter striving for the same joy of mastery come alive and reveal themselves - you'd be amazed how much personality can come through mouse clicks. I tak…

> You get out of games what you put in, in my opinion.

Fair, although what you get out of League is a lot of stress and abusive teammates. Of course you also get tons of fun and challenging matches that make it worth it. But…

I have about 8k hours on Factorio, and about half that in Terraria. Another 5k in Civilization V. Now: are they more enjoyable and enriching than a MOBA? Do they have better mechanics and provide more happy memories? Yes on all counts.

Of course we all enjoy different things :) And hey, in DotA you have a really cool sniper!

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#197

Post by AngryData »

colechristensen wrote: post #7
ViktorRay wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100 years from now the descendants of the engineers who work at Big Tech will be looked upon by their descendants with the same shame that people nowadays look at ancestors who were involved in tobacco.

>people nowadays look at ancestors who were involved in tobacco Huh? Does anyone actually care any more? The kind of moralizing busybodies that spend their time shaming the tobacco industry are few and far between.

Yeah I don't know why people are downvoting. Not for one second would I or anybody I know care about someone in the family having been a tobacco farmer any more than they would care about someone growing alfalfa.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#198

Post by tedd4u »

andai wrote: post #107

> SOMEWHERE IN META’S servers sat a slide deck marked “Confidential”. Written in 2019, its conclusion was blunt: “Teens can’t switch off from Instagram even if they want to.” Found this document: https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2026/04/29/stop-big-... Headlines (quote): Instagram is an inevitable and unavoidable component of teens lives. Teens can’t switch off from Instagram even if they want to. Instagram ha…

The link you share is the link to TFA. I don't see the text you post here in that article. Is there another link that contains this text? Thank you.
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