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Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

nytimes.com

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Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#191

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

rootlocus wrote: post #71
Manuel_D wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that work? The barcode on the item doesn't get rewritten, the checkout counter can't distinguish who picked up which exact item. Even if they did assign unique barcodes to each item, what happens if you take the item off the shelf, and put it in someone else's cart? They'd be charged the wrong price for the item.

The store could make it mandatory to swipe your fidelity care before calculating your prices. They already do something similar with specialized promotions.

In the UK, it's common for supermarkets to have loyalty cards (e.g. Tesco Clubcard) and then they display prices along with the price for using a loyalty card. Then, they just apply the discount (which varies according to the product) when you swipe your card before paying.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#192

Post by skippyboxedhero »

RandomLensman wrote: post #107
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the US has a bigger public healthcare system than, afaik, every European country. the reason why there aren't pitchforks is also because the US is a much richer country than Europe so people are happy to pay for more healthcare. if you are rich, the marginal value of money vs more time being alive is zero (an example is orthapedics for the elderly, the US spends a huge amount in this area relative to most European co…

The US also pays relatvely more, not just absolute. Where could I see the US system delivering then? Not sure the data is so clear cut there.

Because aggregate statistics completely fail to recognise the massive philosophical differences in the system. It is like saying someone who buys Ferrari is getting ripped off because they aren't choosing to ride a bike.

The US pays more because it provides significantly greater coverage outside of aggregate statistics. All of the innovation in rare diseases is because of the US, in public healthcare systems some diseases are simply not treated because it isn't regarded as economic to do so. How do you even quantify that difference? It is like making a GDP comparison between 1800 and today, what price would someone in 1800 not to die of TB? Life expectancy of 20 years old in many countries? Anyone who compares the two things in terms of cost is a lunatic.

In short though, it is not obvious that a high-cost healthcare system is worse. The US system is inefficient, almost all of this relates to their decision not to use universal healthcare which leads to problems pricing insurance. However, this is not related to the system, there are many countries in Europe and worldwide which have effective private healthcare systems.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#193

Post by skippyboxedhero »

joe_mamba wrote: post #113
thrance wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has a bigger public healthcare system than, afaik, every European country In which metric(s)? Afaik, life expectancy is lower in the US than in most of western Europe. And Americans are known to pay much more than Europeans on healthcare, on average.

> life expectancy is lower in the US than in most of western Europe Could be more tied to poor diet and lifestyle, and not the healthcare system itself. Like if you sit on the chair all day on your remote job, then move to the couch for after-work Netflix and PS5, while you drink soda and eat processed food, then the only time you leave your house is you drive your Tesla/F-150 to Walmart and McDonald's, there's no ma…

No, you don't understand, the government must do everything.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#194

Post by RandomLensman »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #192
RandomLensman wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also pays relatvely more, not just absolute. Where could I see the US system delivering then? Not sure the data is so clear cut there.

Because aggregate statistics completely fail to recognise the massive philosophical differences in the system. It is like saying someone who buys Ferrari is getting ripped off because they aren't choosing to ride a bike. The US pays more because it provides significantly greater coverage outside of aggregate statistics. All of the innovation in rare diseases is because of the US, in public healthcare systems some dis…

Not saying a high cost system is worse rather that seeing the benefits in data isn't so easy. Not clear what the "right" costs for a system should be, I reckon.

As to drug discovery etc.: I think, not easy to say how the world would look like if the US weren't offering the opportunities. What would be new equilibrium RoIs needed if the world were quite different (and, yes, I am aware of studies there).

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#195

Post by bdangubic »

protimewaster wrote: post #70
bdangubic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

use a VPN, like Bulgaria is usually good. everything is on sale if you are Bulgarian (most of the time). you may have to text back Yes your credit card company when you get a fraud alert text - that’s about the only inconvenience. just bought US-EU return ticket for June - 22% lower than lowest price I’ve seen “from US” in the last month

I assume this doesn't work with every airline / in every case? E.g., if I am booking with a US-based airline like United or American, to fly between two US cities, do they really bother to offer cheaper tickets based on your international location?

In my experience tickets are always cheaper on the VPN, Bulgaria, The Balkans… I just bought airline tickets that were much cheaper and I also do other bookings this way as well, I got a hotel in Philly a month ago 18% cheaper. it is not bullet-proof thing and I am not traveling all the time but I don’t recall a time I did not find at least a little bit better deal

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#196

Post by Throaway199999 »

estearum wrote: post #176
Drakim wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the ideal dream scenario, but in reality the market isn't that efficient. Lots of markets gouge their customers and due to power imbalances the customers can't really do anything about it. The free market solution to this is just generally to let people suffer.

I don't see why consumers wouldn't just pick the stores that have better prices for them. Why would they know/care/need to know what the prices are doing for other people?

You can't see you mean? Consumers pick things that are reasonably convenient, achievable and known to them. These things are all subject to exploitative tactics by grocery stores.

There's also price-fixing, which famously occurred in Canada recently.

Not to mention cornering a market like Walmart would and removing consumer choice entirely.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#197

Post by Throaway199999 »

estearum wrote: post #165
danlitt wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dynamic pricing based on personal data is not even a market, let alone a perfectly competitive one. Temporal dynamic pricing can mean almost anything, so might be ok (early bird lunch deal) or pure evil (bottled water now costs $100 because there is lead in the tap water).

Your evil case is not evil The point of pricing water to that level is that it would induce other people who have access to bottled water to bring it to that market, as is desirable

You assume that other people can simply bring bottled water to market & compete with discoverability and access to customers with established players?

Or is your point that all people in a market with leaded water should be paying $100 for pure water because it is inherently worth that much per the market.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#198

Post by thrance »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #190
thrance wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has a bigger public healthcare system than, afaik, every European country In which metric(s)? Afaik, life expectancy is lower in the US than in most of western Europe. And Americans are known to pay much more than Europeans on healthcare, on average.

Life expectancy for a country of 300m compared with a subsection of Europe that is most wealthy...seems like a fairly disingenuous comparison. Are you one of those people that believes most American schools are shooting ranges too? All of the problems in the US are concentrated in subsections of the population (just as in Europe). America is a wealthy country that has a mix of south American and African problems atta…

> Life expectancy for a country of 300m compared with a subsection of Europe that is most wealthy...seems like a fairly disingenuous comparison.

Always the same weird "You don't understand, America is really big" argument. GDP per capita is higher there than in anywhere in western Europe. Why is your healthcare system delivering worse results for much higher price? It's a simple question, and the answer is equally simple: private insurance acts as an useless and bloated middleman whose incentives are opposite to providing quality healthcare to its customers. They want to be paid the most in exchange for the least service. Couple that to a bought political class and you've got the least efficient healthcare system in the developed world.

> Are you one of those people that believes most American schools are shooting ranges too?

Strawman. I don't.

> America is a wealthy country that has a mix of south American and African problems attached to it.

???

If you mean to say that America is providing for the world, that's an insane position to hold. The USA are extracting much more wealth from these places than they are injecting.

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#199

Post by estearum »

Throaway199999 wrote: post #196
estearum wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why consumers wouldn't just pick the stores that have better prices for them. Why would they know/care/need to know what the prices are doing for other people?

You can't see you mean? Consumers pick things that are reasonably convenient, achievable and known to them. These things are all subject to exploitative tactics by grocery stores. There's also price-fixing, which famously occurred in Canada recently. Not to mention cornering a market like Walmart would and removing consumer choice entirely.

All of these are separate issues from dynamic pricing

Re: Maryland to ban A.I.-driven price increases in grocery stores

#200

Post by estearum »

Throaway199999 wrote: post #197
estearum wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your evil case is not evil The point of pricing water to that level is that it would induce other people who have access to bottled water to bring it to that market, as is desirable

You assume that other people can simply bring bottled water to market & compete with discoverability and access to customers with established players? Or is your point that all people in a market with leaded water should be paying $100 for pure water because it is inherently worth that much per the market.

No, I assume that if anyone can bring bottled water to market, they should have a strong incentive to do so whenever there is a strong need for more of it.
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