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Ghostty is leaving GitHub

mitchellh.com

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Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#191

Post by Zenbit_UX »

mitchellh wrote: post #26

I know this is ridiculously dramatic, but its the truth: I actually cried writing this blog post (tears hit my keyboard, I'm embarrassed to say). Nobody should cry over a SaaS, of all things. But GitHub has meant so much more to me than that (all laid out in the post). I have an unhealthy relationship with it. Its given me so much and I'm so thankful for it. But, it's not what it used to be. I don't know. We've been…

Forgive me if you’re not in a solutioning phase right now … but how motivated are you to fix this?

I’m a big fan of ghostty and also unenamoured with the current state of GitHub and Microsoft.

That is to say I believe this is an opportunity to disrupt the incumbent player and I’m game. HMU if you feel similar and want to discuss.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#193

Post by MatthiasPortzel »

Induane wrote: post #136
DrammBA wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can feel the frustation, nothing dramatic about expressing it This quote from the post resonated with me: > I want to get work done and it doesn't want me to get work done. I want to ship software and it doesn't want me to ship software. The sentiment is shared, and github is not the only service making me feel like that, it feels like everything on the web is more flimsy and low quality nowadays. Constant outages,…

Way overcomplicating design is one challenge that keeps getting worse. Another gigantic unspoken issue is that people have started building tons of stuff with React on purpose for some reason.

React gets blamed for this because the error handling is bad and the UX is confusing. But the issue with GitHub’s frontend is that the backend is dropping requests. When you click a button on GitHub and the loader gets stuck that’s because there no timeout/error handling in the JavaScript but there also no reply from the server. I feel like React is getting a bad rap because it’s visible when the issue is clearly their backend.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#194

Post by idan »

spaceribs wrote: post #124
idan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there! Longtime fan and hubber here. It's okay to have emotions. I have similar emotions. I'm GitHub User 22723 which is effectively the same as you (considering there's ~180m GH accounts nowadays) My version of your post reads differently: "GitHub only gets better if people who give a shit stick around to make it better" Walking away would be easy. I felt that way when I left Heroku ~six years ago. I left that jo…

Considering the size and scale of Github, do you feel like it's become closer to an infrastructural public good rather than a privately owned product? The amount of impact I've seen to businesses around the US at least might as well be akin to a Covid shutdown, and that certainly has me thinking about what the overall impacts are on the US economy overall.

Caveat, I'm not a lawyer, I don't speak for the company, yadda yadda

It's a product that is _de facto_ present in nearly all developer scenarios. There are scenarios where I personally believe public management is better than private management, e.g. single-payer healthcare is strictly better than the bullshit we have in the US now. It's fundamentally cheaper for the polity when the government negotiates with healthcare providers than each private insurer.

I don't think that's fundamentally the problem facing GitHub, and I don't think it would be better in any way — for anyone — if it were regulated like a utility. But again, I write javascript for a living. Take what I'm saying with a big-ass rock of salt.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#195

Post by pc86 »

BizarroLand wrote: post #160
frevib wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enshittification has become the winning strategy for companies. If you don’t enshittify you will lose.

This is my darkly optimistic take on enshittification: Companies know how to make good product, but if they don't have "new and shiny" to impress us anymore, then their only alternative is to make things worse so they can heel turn and then make things "better" by unmaking all of the worse things they did. They can also milk their customers coming and going in the process. It's not "enshittify or lose", its just raw…

When is the "get better" step? I've only ever seen two things happen mid- or post-enshittification:

    1. The company builds a moat and just remains shit.
    2. New entrants either displace the company entirely (most likely) or competition slows the enshittification process (distant second) or reverses it (almost never).
It's not clear to me why "get shitty" is a necessary step to this. What part of GitHub's executives' grand plan is "have a barely-functional service that randomly prevents people from working"?

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#196

Post by jrochkind1 »

stabbles wrote: post #109
OtomotO wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Needless) complexity is going on. KISS and you sleep better. That and the problem of forever chasing trends and never saying: "It's done" without reinventing everything every couple of years (trends again) Sounds too easy? It is of course simplified, but the core still holds true. GitHub just worked, but they had to migrate to React because "that's what everyone else uses"... Pure Enshittification.

After yesterday's outage they admitted that their elasticsearch index for issues/prs lost data. They seem to have changed the primary source of data in the issues and pull requests tabs (w/o filters applied) from the underlying database to the elasticsearch search index, which has the side effect that there's a noticeable delay between state change of an issue/pr and an update in the UI. But as seen today, these can…

Yeah, I have been noticing weird things with Issues and PRs, including outdated state, for months now.

When the outage happened yesterday I sort of figured it was something I had been noticing building up or something.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#197

Post by SwellJoe »

pathartl wrote: post #107
yetihehe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years ago I wondered how long will it take them to go they way sourceforge went. Once you grow too much without a proper leader, you will fall :(.

Comparing GitHub and SourceForge as if they were cut from the same cloth is laughable to me. SF has always been a wretched hive of ads and dark patterns.

Not always, but it was so long ago that it became that, younger folks could be forgiven for thinking so.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#198

Post by saghm »

NewJazz wrote: post #114
MarsIronPI wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think a new GitHub will emerge and when it's just right, will grow like wildfire (like OpenClaw, or even GitHub itself did during the SVN and SourceForge era). And many are already trying to be that new GitHub. Really? I can only think of two: Codeberg and Sourceforge. Which are both great, but that's not what I'd call "many".

Gitlab? Three distinct codebases is quite a lot to be honest. Especially when Forgejo has the lineage of Gitea and Gogs in its wake.

At least as far as I can tell, Gitlab seems to be used a lot more than the other two. I don't think I've ever gone to a page for a SourceForge project that was created after maybe 2012 or so, and although it's possible I've looked at a project on Codeberg or Forgejo, I can't think of a single one off the top of my head. Meanwhile, I've run into projects on Gitlab (either gitlab.com itself or a self-hosted version) at multiple employers and various Linux codebases and packages (Plasma and Gnome desktop environments and other various windowing-related software, Arch Linux package sources, etc.).

I guess it's possible that my experience is wildly different than others, but if we're talking about volume of usage today rather than individual preferences, it's kind of shocking for me that someone wouldn't think to reference Gitlab at all in the list of potential successors, let alone not mention it literally first.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#200

Post by jrochkind1 »

SoKamil wrote: post #157
OtomotO wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Needless) complexity is going on. KISS and you sleep better. That and the problem of forever chasing trends and never saying: "It's done" without reinventing everything every couple of years (trends again) Sounds too easy? It is of course simplified, but the core still holds true. GitHub just worked, but they had to migrate to React because "that's what everyone else uses"... Pure Enshittification.

What? React has nothing to do with current state of affairs. In fact, React on GitHub currently exists in mere islands, i.e. in Projects and recently in Pull Requests. Most of the frontend is still Web Components[1] paired with Turbo[2] for hot reloading. GitHub is still as slow even with JavaScript disabled, try it yourself. Backend just serves stuff really slow. In fact, there is an alternative GitHub frontend (no…

Pull Requests is the thing that was wacky in the UI yesterday, coincidence or not? I have no idea.

Yesterday we saw PR pages that displayed no error, just displayed wrong info. I would have preferred to get an error page than outdated or empty lists. I was guessing this was related to the React migration but I don't really know.

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