Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them • Hacker News Board

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#191

Post by dangus » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:09 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #181

dangus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo and other taxi services are inherently bad for cyclists compared to increasing transit utilization and providing more ways to walk and cycle that feel and are safe. They’re even bad for drivers as they are more detrimental to traffic than personal car ownership. They take up space on the road even when they aren’t being used to transport anyone. I think we should spend less time worrying about ride share policy…

> Waymo and other taxi services are inherently bad for cyclists compared to increasing transit utilization Anecdote: I take transit way more in San Francisco with Waymo. Because booking is deterministic (it says 20 minutes, it will be there in 20 minutes, even if it’s a short ride), I can connect with the loose network of city and regional rail systems in a way that was tedious with human drivers. (I lived in New Yor…

Which, again, is a band-aid to bad regional transit connectivity.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#192

Post by joenot443 » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:10 PM UTC

danny_codes wrote: post #162

slibhb wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your analysis but I just want to point out that, as a general rule, cyclists do not follow traffic laws. They don't stop at stop signs/red lights. They weave in and out of traffic. They often bike the wrong way down one-way bike paths.

That seems irrelevant, we’re talking about cars. Also, of course bikers don’t follow car rules. Those rules are nonsensical for cyclists.

We’re talking about bike lanes, it seemed completely relevant to me?

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#193

Post by crazygringo » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:10 PM UTC

mmmattt wrote: post #184

crazygringo wrote: post #178

There's no way to judge this without looking at any particular street. I live in a city with bike lanes. But some of them are one-lane (well, one vehicle lane, one bike lane), one-way streets. If a car or taxi or delivery vehicle or anything at all is going to pull over, it's necessarily going to be in the bike lane. (It's either that, or stop literally all traffic on the street.) As a cyclist, I quickly stopped gett…

Or you know, stop somewhere else ?

OK, where?

A lot of streets simply don't have separate shoulders to pull over on. Or if they do, they're 100% occupied by on-street parking. The bike lane is effectively doing double-duty as the shoulder. Is Waymo supposed to drop you off 5 blocks away after circling for 20 minutes looking for an available parking spot, just to stop for 30 seconds to let you out?

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#194

Post by dangus » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:11 PM UTC

SR2Z wrote: post #143

dangus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo and other taxi services are inherently bad for cyclists compared to increasing transit utilization and providing more ways to walk and cycle that feel and are safe. They’re even bad for drivers as they are more detrimental to traffic than personal car ownership. They take up space on the road even when they aren’t being used to transport anyone. I think we should spend less time worrying about ride share policy…

Being around a Waymo makes me feel WAY safer than being around a human driver. If more cars were replaced, I would probably bike even more. Seriously, Waymos follow at a respectful distance and overtake me safely. They stop at stop signs. Sometimes they even stop and wait for me to make a decision about which way I'm heading.

It's not "human driver versus waymo driver," it's "car versus no car" or "10 cars versus 2 cars" or "fast cars versus slow cars."

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#195

Post by dangus » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:12 PM UTC

alwaysdoit wrote: post #163

dangus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo and other taxi services are inherently bad for cyclists compared to increasing transit utilization and providing more ways to walk and cycle that feel and are safe. They’re even bad for drivers as they are more detrimental to traffic than personal car ownership. They take up space on the road even when they aren’t being used to transport anyone. I think we should spend less time worrying about ride share policy…

Personal cars also take up space on the road when they aren't being used. It would be much easier to build physically separated, safe biking lanes and drop off areas if we could use all the space we currently dedicate exclusively to personal vehicle parking on public streets.

Not usually, and not in the same way. They are usually parked in a parking spot or garage.

Taxis and Waymos stop in areas that are explicitly marked not to stop or park.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#196

Post by ianburrell » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:13 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #160

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

I agree with your analysis but I just want to point out that, as a general rule, cyclists do not follow traffic laws. They don't stop at stop signs/red lights. They weave in and out of traffic. They often bike the wrong way down one-way bike paths.

Cars don't follow traffic laws. Cars roll through stop signs and run red lights. Cars speed and weave through traffic. They go the wrong way down one-way streets. Since cars are much bigger, this is much more dangerous.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#197

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

doug_durham wrote: post #186

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities who want to keep cars out of bike lanes should stop offering “mom says we have bike lanes at home” repainting of streets. Create a curb and raise the bike lanes. It’s the only safe solution. I understand this is not realistic in a lot of scenarios but it is basically the only way you can achieve actual safety short of cement separators at the road level, which is basically a curb anyway. There’s just no realit…

Bike lanes with curbs aren’t great. On garbage days trash cans often get parked in the bike lane and cyclists have no way of going around since the curb block their way. I’m perfectly comfortable with just lines for bike lanes.

I’ll take my chances with the trash can over the SUV that can’t even see me because it’s so lifted and that will kill me instantly if the driver isn’t paying attention. At least with the trash can I have a chance

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#198

Post by pseudocomposer » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

The “cars stopping in random places everywhere in any remotely urban area” thing has become a huge problem in general. It’s probably our clearest sign of the fundamental scalability problems of car-centric design.

Assuming we can’t significantly reduce car usage (and noting that you can still prioritize bike/pedestrian-friendliness and assume this), we really need regular car equivalents to bus stops. For Waymo or human rideshare drivers, or just non-transactional human families, say, dropping grandma off at a brunch restaurant. And significant fines + license points for anyone who stops anywhere outside them, like they do now, once established. The idea is no different than frequent trash cans and significant littering fines, really.

(I’m just spitballing here and am open to being wrong, just putting the idea out there as someone who’s noticed how much worse driving in cities has become over time.)

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#199

Post by saagarjha » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:15 PM UTC

danny_codes wrote: post #162

slibhb wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your analysis but I just want to point out that, as a general rule, cyclists do not follow traffic laws. They don't stop at stop signs/red lights. They weave in and out of traffic. They often bike the wrong way down one-way bike paths.

That seems irrelevant, we’re talking about cars. Also, of course bikers don’t follow car rules. Those rules are nonsensical for cyclists.

Bikes are largely supposed to follow the same rules, with a handful of exceptions.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#200

Post by saagarjha » Sun, Apr 26, 2026, 9:15 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #160

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

I agree with your analysis but I just want to point out that, as a general rule, cyclists do not follow traffic laws. They don't stop at stop signs/red lights. They weave in and out of traffic. They often bike the wrong way down one-way bike paths.

Seems like something else worth working on.