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Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

wired.com

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Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#191

Post by mech422 »

hn_user82179 wrote: post #133

> “I’m curious why this had to be posted. Especially on the company account. On the practical level every time stuff like that gets posted it gets harder for us to sell the software outside of the US (for sure in the current political climate), and I doubt we need this in the US?” wrote one frustrated employee. The message received more than 50 “+1” emojis. > “Wether [sic] we acknowledge it or not, this impacts us al…

Sounds like they're having a 'NSA Moment'. After the leaks, there was a Bunch of high profile stories about employees leaving after their neighbors/friends/normies found out the sorts of stuff NSA was up to....

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#192

Post by IAmBroom »

bko wrote: post #178
Ritewut wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are letting perfect be the enemy of good. If they respond with "I love bacon" then tell them to eat plant-based + bacon. It's still a vast improvement environmentally than what they were doing previously.

I personally think vegans should consider eating cows. If you care about sentient life and abuse, think about how much meat one cow produces. Killing a single cow can feed you for well over a year.

Should pacifists likewise murder one person?

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#194

Post by npunt »

seattle_spring wrote: post #136
Ritewut wrote: post #69

Everyone in this industry should be required to read Careless People by Sara Wynn-Williams about her tenure at Facebook. Not because the book is about how evil Meta/Facebook is as a company but because you get to see the lengths people go to mentally convince themselves they are the good guy. Repeatedly in the book she tries to assure herself she's making the world better and that there's actually an ethical, positiv…

I'll never forget this spot on NPR where they interviewed a machine learning engineer working on AI videos. The engineer was purely focused on how cool the technology is, how real it looks, etc. The interviewer asked, "aren't you worried about this getting into the hands of the wrong people, and creating deepfakes for extortion and things like that?" The engineer paused for a few seconds, and then said, "gosh I never…

Yeah engineering as a discipline tends to be pretty naïve to the consequences of what they build, and sociopaths take advantage of it. Norbert Wiener [1] observed this about the engineers working on nukes in the 1940s-1950s:

“Push-button warfare... possible for a limited group of people to threaten the absolute destruction of millions, without any immediate risk to themselves.... Behind all this I sensed the desires of the gadgeteer to see the wheels go round.”

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#195

Post by elzbardico »

kelnos wrote: post #163
elzbardico wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's usually a bit more accountability in using a missile than using palantir systems. At least legally, a missile could only be used in defense or in a war authorized by the congress. Until recently, most of the population believed that the vast majority of America's military actions were somewhat just and legal, for noble reasons. Dark stuff like Palantir was never like that.

> At least legally, a missile could only be used in defense or in a war authorized by the congress. Some Iranians might disagree with you on that point. They can't, though, as they're dead, killed by missiles used not in defense and not in a war authorized by Congress. > Until recently, most of the population believed that the vast majority of America's military actions were somewhat just and legal, for noble reasons…

Please not that I qualified both statements.

"At least legally" It doesn't matter if this is true for this situation, as an employee you only need to have been convinced this is true.

"Most of the population believed" - Again, even if they were mistaken, if they believed it, and let me tell you, a lot of the people STILL believes it, that belief is enough to enure you'll have a good night of sleep after a shift in a Lockheed office or factory.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#196

Post by therobots927 »

kjs3 wrote: post #149
uoaei wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It read like a longtime adderall addict who switched to clean meth a while ago.

It read like a C- college sophomore dudebro who read some Ayn Rand and Raspail and Yockey and said "I fucking am John Galt", hit a bong, and got to scribbling their 'manifesto'.

All three of these suggestions are likely true. I’ve never done Ketamine but I’ve heard it can seriously degrade the user’s “quality control” of their ideas, meaning that ideas that they have, or ideas they get from others, that are intellectually subpar appear to be quite brilliant. The dissociation is also helpful for overcoming moral qualms if they were ever present.

Combine that with speed and a insular SV culture steeped in the ideology of Ayn Rand and Nick Land (who likely suffered from amphetamine psychosis) and you get something like this Palantir manifesto.

I would feel sorry for them if they weren’t building skynet.

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#197

Post by chairmansteve »

tdb7893 wrote: post #101
Ritewut wrote: post #69

Everyone in this industry should be required to read Careless People by Sara Wynn-Williams about her tenure at Facebook. Not because the book is about how evil Meta/Facebook is as a company but because you get to see the lengths people go to mentally convince themselves they are the good guy. Repeatedly in the book she tries to assure herself she's making the world better and that there's actually an ethical, positiv…

My experience is that people will be able to justify anything that is "normal". I went vegan after learning too much of how the literal sausage is made and the amount of people who have unprompted (people are weird about it so I try to avoid talking about being vegan except for mentioning it quickly while declining food) said something along the lines of "factory farming is awful but I just love bacon" and laugh is l…

>the impetus for me leaving tech.

What do you do now?

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#198

Post by IAmBroom »

snarf21 wrote: post #114
Ritewut wrote: post #69

Everyone in this industry should be required to read Careless People by Sara Wynn-Williams about her tenure at Facebook. Not because the book is about how evil Meta/Facebook is as a company but because you get to see the lengths people go to mentally convince themselves they are the good guy. Repeatedly in the book she tries to assure herself she's making the world better and that there's actually an ethical, positiv…

This just another example of Sinclair's Law.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

Re: Palantir employees are starting to wonder if they're the bad guys

#200

Post by geodel »

Aurornis wrote: post #142
Ritewut wrote: post #69

Everyone in this industry should be required to read Careless People by Sara Wynn-Williams about her tenure at Facebook. Not because the book is about how evil Meta/Facebook is as a company but because you get to see the lengths people go to mentally convince themselves they are the good guy. Repeatedly in the book she tries to assure herself she's making the world better and that there's actually an ethical, positiv…

From what I've seen the focus on a few big companies can have a backwards effect on some people's sense of morals. I've heard a few people justify their work for unethical companies as "At least it's not as bad as what Facebook does". It can also have the opposite of the intended effect when it encourages beliefs that bad behavior is normalized in the industry. I've heard an executive try to drum up support for a pro…

Indeed. It would be difficult to make person understand something if their salary depends on not understanding it.
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