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Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#191

Post by mothballed »

FL33TW00D wrote: post #141
alsetmusic wrote: post #33

As a former smoker (who quit for seven years and regrets taking it up again), and as a present-day vape user, wtf. This is a clear restriction on liberty. It may be stupid that I do it. Just like many stupid decisions (junk food included), it ought to be my right to decide how to live. Cut off production so cigarettes are no longer made or imported. Don't block me from them while letting others have them. (Not in UK)…

In a country with a national health system, why should you be able to internalize the benefit of smoking whilst externalizing the cost?

OK, so if you smoke you don't get national / socialized health care but don't have to pay the taxes that fund it either. Deal. It's enough to convince me to take up smoking.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#192

Post by Gud »

Findecanor wrote: post #146
hyperpape wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, this is completely wrong. There is a difference that someone smoking nearby automatically harms people around you. With alcohol, the effect is more unpredictable, but it is equally real. Alcohol is a factor in an automobile crashes, and a factor in a significant proportion of violent crime, especially domestic violence ( https://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/09/17/mark-kleiman/taxatio... edit: this…

Second-hand smoke does affect people around you. It is how people get addicted to nicotine. It is how new smokers are created. And there are some people who are more sensitive to temporary exposure to smoke (and pollution in general) than others. That is why smoking tends to be is banned around hospitals and day care centers ­— because those are places where you will find those people. My father was one of them, afte…

No, but the person drinking next to you can suddenly decide you gave them a bad look and decide to pick a fight.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#193

Post by cucumber3732842 »

lokar wrote: post #149
themaninthedark wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is one of the reasons there is resistance to socialized health care. People view it as opening the door to the government controlling what they due due to health care costs. Sure, I dislike smoking, I really don't drink that much either. But then it leads to questions such as; What about birth defects? What about extreme sports(risk of permanent injury)? There was a scandal in Canada recently about veterans…

IMO they should just charge a premium for smoking that about covers the expense overall

Solving it with money doesn't really solve it unless there's "real" competition.

Look at automotive insurance points systems. People have to buy it so the sellers lean on the legislatures and before you know it a ticket costs the same points and screws you out of just as much money as an actual accident.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#194

Post by Gud »

slibhb wrote: post #153
FL33TW00D wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a country with a national health system, why should you be able to internalize the benefit of smoking whilst externalizing the cost?

You could use this logic to ban unhealthy foods, or restrict people from eating too much.

Considering the general state of the UK population, this may not be such a bad idea.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#195

Post by slibhb »

It's sad that the UK, which invented liberal philosophy, is increasingly accepting of paternalism. It's important that people have an inviolable personal sphere inside which they can live their lives as they see fit. That includes making decisions of which society disaproves.

Moreover, essentially all behavior plausibly has "diffuse negative externalities". We should be very careful about adopting that ("harms others in diffuse ways") as a reasonable standard for banning some behavior.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#196

Post by sir0010010 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #131
pixl97 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the US found out, alcohol is very very hard to ban because it is very very easy to make.

Weed and tobacco are also very easy to make. They literally grow on trees[1]. [1] Technically, herbaceous plants.

Weed and tobacco smoking are also easy to detect by people who don't want secondhand smoke. And if it were illegal, they could report it.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#197

Post by Symbiote »

olalonde wrote: post #78

What about tourists and foreigners? Most smokers can't go more than a few hours without smoking... This will surely lead to a large black market.

They can bring it with them.

The law (as proposed) restricts sales and giving to someone else, not the smoking itself.

https://bills.parliament.uk/publications/60034/documents/628...

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#199

Post by reactordev »

afavour wrote: post #139
reactordev wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same amount of damage done to your liver from that beer…

There's no such thing as second hand liver damage from someone else drinking beer

There is when that person is traveling at a high rate of speed...

Look, I get that you're anti-smoking along with the rest of us but both things are bad. Drinking is bad, smoking is bad, a lot of things are bad. The question is, which of these bad things did you try out and are now stuck with? That's the real issue. Products shouldn't not be allowed to be physically addicting like that. Arguing about it on HN to a bunch of addicts is like arguing with an alcoholic on their drinking problem. It's an echo chamber or a brick wall. Someone's going to walk away with a black eye.

Is second hand smoke dangerous? Not the same way inhaling soldering fumes could be or if you ever welded, the fumes could cause damage to your lungs. It's more subtle and requires prolonged exposure.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#200

Post by [deleted] »

alsetmusic wrote: post #33

As a former smoker (who quit for seven years and regrets taking it up again), and as a present-day vape user, wtf. This is a clear restriction on liberty. It may be stupid that I do it. Just like many stupid decisions (junk food included), it ought to be my right to decide how to live. Cut off production so cigarettes are no longer made or imported. Don't block me from them while letting others have them. (Not in UK)…

[deleted]
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