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ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

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Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#191

Post by sassymuffinz »

bluegatty wrote: post #168
sassymuffinz wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said I still use Copilot as needed, I just don't trust Claude to go off on its own and generate a mountain of technical debt that I can't 100% trust. To use your own analogy, there's plenty of carpenters still around for when someone needs something doing properly and bespoke, even though we can all go to Ikea, or any other flat pack furniture company, to get wobbly furniture cheaply at any time. I'd rather be…

You're offering to deliver parcels by horse - thinking that somehow your 'delivering is better because it's more natural' and that your customers will appreciate it, over the 'smog' that the cars create. Or in other words - 'non existent'. It is arrogant and luddite to suggest that 'using AI is not doing it properly' or that anyone will care. They care that it's done well - that's it. FYI, the code that AI produces i…

Maybe in your industry but in mine working with small and medium businesses they value reliability above everything else. They don't give a shit whether you use AI or not as long as it's stable and works and are prepared to pay a premium for someone who knows what they're doing.

If you want to have a race to the bottom and be Sam Altman's lap dog, that your business.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#192

Post by sassymuffinz »

bitwize wrote: post #178
sassymuffinz wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said I still use Copilot as needed, I just don't trust Claude to go off on its own and generate a mountain of technical debt that I can't 100% trust. To use your own analogy, there's plenty of carpenters still around for when someone needs something doing properly and bespoke, even though we can all go to Ikea, or any other flat pack furniture company, to get wobbly furniture cheaply at any time. I'd rather be…

No one is paying a liveable wage for purely human-authored code anymore. This is the job now, and you are far more effective with these tools than without. If you still have an issue with their output, that's a PEBKAC and you need to upskill and/or attitude adjust. Stop thinking like a programmer and start thinking like a business person. Delegate! It doesn't matter if the machine wrote code just the way you would ha…

Interesting - I'm still making a very liveable wage building projects for small and medium companies, because they don't know their AI from their elbow and don't want to know, they have their own business to run.

You forget that templates and off the shelf SAAS products have been around forever and yet I'm still here getting work because there's always a catch and it always shits the bed.

You mention that I must have a user/skill issue because the AI can't be trusted, I had to explain multiple times to Claude during my work that it had left a very obvious security hole in a controller and in a different policy. Stop pretending it's some sort of super intelligence, they can't even do a timer bro and OpenAI is laughing at you while taking your money.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#193

Post by eudamoniac »

bitwize wrote: post #178
sassymuffinz wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said I still use Copilot as needed, I just don't trust Claude to go off on its own and generate a mountain of technical debt that I can't 100% trust. To use your own analogy, there's plenty of carpenters still around for when someone needs something doing properly and bespoke, even though we can all go to Ikea, or any other flat pack furniture company, to get wobbly furniture cheaply at any time. I'd rather be…

No one is paying a liveable wage for purely human-authored code anymore. This is the job now, and you are far more effective with these tools than without. If you still have an issue with their output, that's a PEBKAC and you need to upskill and/or attitude adjust. Stop thinking like a programmer and start thinking like a business person. Delegate! It doesn't matter if the machine wrote code just the way you would ha…

This sort of angry post, with many demands "attitude adjust" "delegate" and invectives "close-minded" "lazy" never appeared for any other technology shift. React devs never posted like this about jQuery devs. Mobile app devs never posted like this about mobile web devs. Yet tons of AI users post like this about non-AI-using devs.

Is it some kind of fear or doubt? It's a strange phenomenon.

Like for example I strongly believe Typescript is better than Javascript and needs to be used instead for any serious project. But if someone says they don't like it, I cannot imagine myself writing a post like yours about it. First of all I don't care what they use, but second of all if I really wanted to convince them it would not look anything like this. Your post and many like it reads like anger and condescension and incredulity.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#194

Post by sassymuffinz »

eudamoniac wrote: post #193
bitwize wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is paying a liveable wage for purely human-authored code anymore. This is the job now, and you are far more effective with these tools than without. If you still have an issue with their output, that's a PEBKAC and you need to upskill and/or attitude adjust. Stop thinking like a programmer and start thinking like a business person. Delegate! It doesn't matter if the machine wrote code just the way you would ha…

This sort of angry post, with many demands "attitude adjust" "delegate" and invectives "close-minded" "lazy" never appeared for any other technology shift. React devs never posted like this about jQuery devs. Mobile app devs never posted like this about mobile web devs. Yet tons of AI users post like this about non-AI-using devs. Is it some kind of fear or doubt? It's a strange phenomenon. Like for example I strongly…

He's drunk the kool aid and forgotten that some of us have been working in this industry for decades and got along just fine without AI, while he's busy debugging his technical debt and getting sued for leaking customer data I'll just be over here quietly enjoying coding for customers who like dealing with human beings and not black box robots.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#196

Post by torben-friis »

ethbr1 wrote: post #171
torben-friis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyone who says they're able to review thousands of lines effectively that Claude might slop out in a day are lying to themselves. The amount you can review before burning out is now the reasonable limit, for the same reason that a car is supposed to stay at the speed you can handle and not the max speed of the engine. Of course, many people are secretly skipping reviews and some dare to publicly advocate for gettin…

> The amount you can review before burning out is now the reasonable limit I realized this is the crux of our moment, because a variant of Amdahl's law applies to AI code gen. {time gained} = {time saved via gen AI} - {time spent in human review} There's no way that results in a positive number with 100% human review coverage, which means that human review coverage is headed to < 100% (ideally as low as possible).

I'm not sure that's as certain, I think just by virtue or LLMs being better copypasting/integrated stackoverflow you can get a speed boost (prompts like "generate a similar test to this one checking condition X").

The question is whether humans can sensibly judge the break even point and not generate faster than that. It's very easy to get lost in the woods and suddenly have a bunch of generated stuff you no longer grok.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#197

Post by NewsaHackO »

Throaway199999 wrote: post #162
sonofhans wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sarcastically-stated but an excellent point, and an honest answer will come up with a vanishingly small list. We geeks may think we care about Important Things, but our industry cares for nothing but money and power — morality is a hindrance to the accumulation of those.

llm made this post?

Because of the em-dash? Unfortunately, some writing hipsters created this "uh actually we were writing emdashes first, it's dramatic increase of use since llm proliferation in the 2020s shouldn't mean we can't use it!" movement. This has lead to purposeful use of emdashes to bait people to call them lllms. You can tell because the spaces around it most likely is because they had to copy and paste it from somewhere else as they (like most humans on non macs) don't actually know how to write an emdash otherwise.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#198

Post by sassymuffinz »

eudamoniac wrote: post #187
bluegatty wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're offering to deliver parcels by horse - thinking that somehow your 'delivering is better because it's more natural' and that your customers will appreciate it, over the 'smog' that the cars create. Or in other words - 'non existent'. It is arrogant and luddite to suggest that 'using AI is not doing it properly' or that anyone will care. They care that it's done well - that's it. FYI, the code that AI produces i…

I really don't understand why you people always say these things so matter of factly. I'd put a lot of money (and do, in the markets) on you being wrong. I'm pretty sure in ten years I will not have a problem keeping a software job without using AI.

Maybe it's because of the environment they work in or their understanding of other people because of the business they're in.

Your average 50 year old business owner doesn't understand AI at all and doesn't care to know, he's too busy thinking about getting a new order for 5000 widgets that he invented. What he needs is a website with inventory management, some sort of email marketing software, some sort of CRM, maybe a dashboard or something. What he wants to do is pick up the phone to someone and get them to take care of it for a reasonable price.

AI is coming for programmers with no social skills, but it isn't coming for the human relationship side of the business where you need to have a few meetings to work out what they want to achieve, build a plan that works long term, have a call with other third parties or their vendors etc to alleviate pain points and then build a project around the business needs that won't crash every five minutes and leak their internal information because Claude decided security was optional.

Half my job is understanding what they need and then instead of accepting their original scope, building a brand new scope in collaboration with them to fit the business needs long term. If one of these guys just wants to plow the original scope into Claude and let it rip then the customer isn't getting what they need.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#199

Post by dghlsakjg »

fragmede wrote: post #137
dweekly wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT 5.4 is the surly physics PhD post-doc who slowly and angrily sits in a basement to write brilliant, undocumented, uncommented code that encapsulates a breakthrough algorithm. Opus 4.6 is the L5 new hire SWE keen to prove their chops and quickly turn out totally reasonable code with putatively defensible reasons for doing it that way (that are sometimes tragically wrong) and then catch an after-work yoga class wit…

> and then catch an after-work yoga class with you. That's cute, but do you mean something concrete with this, aka are there some non-coding prompting you use it for that you're referring to with that or is it simply a throwaway line about L5 SWEs (at a FAANG). (FWIW, I find myself using ChatGPT for non-coding prompting for some reason, like random questions like if oil is fungible and not Claude, for some reason.)

It’s an analogy about the “personalities” of the models.

They are saying that Claude is more of a team player and conformist. It isn’t really much deeper than that.

Re: ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month

#200

Post by monkeyisland »

mrdependable wrote: post #107

It's interesting seeing all the ChatGPT users in this thread, knowing what we know about OpenAI. Either they don't care about what OpenAI does, don't know their reputation, or feel like their use is too insignificant to matter.

Could you spell it out? I pay a $20/m OpenAI subscription and I haven't read the reasons why I might want to stop.
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