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How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

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191–200 of 257 posts

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda is quite a strong term to describe the works of an economist. If one wants to debate the ideas of von Mises, it'd be useful to consider the Zeitgeist at that time. Von Mises preferred free markets in contrast to the planned economy of the communists. Partly because the latter has difficulties in proper resource allocation and pricing. Note that this was decades before we had working digital computers and d…

Economics is propaganda. It’s not an empiracle science, and it’s claims are mostly used to promote ideologies consistent with government policy or the ideology of powerful individuals with the surplus’s wealth available to pay someone to build a quantitative defense of said ideology. What else would you call it?

It's a social science? Economics is much broader and much less unified than you purport it to be. The (social) science of (in this case) Macroeconomics is just that, an observational science, a bunch of theories and observations (controlled experiments are not really feasible). The propaganda is caused by politicians, administrators, and policymakers, not really the scientists. There I agree with you, central bankers are a prime example of such propaganda. Ever wondered why almost everywhere the inflation target is 2%? Not 1%, not 3%, but exactly 2%? There is no real scientific reason behind it, that is just policy, or propaganda if you want to name it like that.

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#192
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to propaganda from the likes of Ludwig von Mises, the free market is not some kind of optimal solution to all of our problems. And it certainly does not produce excellent software.

Mises never claimed that the free market produced the most optimal solutions at a given moment. In fact Mises explicitly stated many times that the free market does indeed incur in semi-frequent self-corrections, speculations and manipulations by the agents. What Mises proposition was - in essence - is that an autonomous market with enough agents participating in it will reach an optimal Nash equilibrium where both o…

So it will reach equilibrium unless literally anything disrupts that equilibrium. Got it.

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda is quite a strong term to describe the works of an economist. If one wants to debate the ideas of von Mises, it'd be useful to consider the Zeitgeist at that time. Von Mises preferred free markets in contrast to the planned economy of the communists. Partly because the latter has difficulties in proper resource allocation and pricing. Note that this was decades before we had working digital computers and d…

Governament contracts are very restricted behind layers of certifications and authorizations. For example, you can't freely produce missiles and have it in wallmart where "the governament" purchase at shelf price.

What a world that would be. Would change the game of 'deer hunting' for sure.

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#194
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many intellectuals have this problem. They make interesting, precise statements under specific assumptions, but they get interpreted in all kinds of directions. When they push back against certain narratives and extrapolations they usually don’t succeed, because the same mechanism applies here as well. The only thing they can do about it, is throwing around ashtrays.

What a great visual. I haven't heard that phrase before.

It's a fun image, but I was not my idea. I was playfully referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashtray_(Or_the_Man_Who_De...

Although in this original case the image (that allegedly happened) used to criticize the philopher (Kuhn), so kind of the other side of the coin of what I said above.

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#195
post #3

The quote from the CMU guy about modern Agile and DevOps approaches challenging architectural discipline is a nice way of saying most of us have completely forgotten how to build deterministic systems. Time-triggered Ethernet with strict frame scheduling feels like it's from a parallel universe compared to how we ship software now.

Agile is not meant to make solid, robust products. It’s so you can make product fragments/iterations quickly, with okay quality and out to the customer asap to maximize profits.

You can absolutely build robust products using agile. Apart from some of the human benefits of any kind of incremental/iterative development, the big win with Agile is a realistic way to elicit requirements from normal people.

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#196
post #3

The quote from the CMU guy about modern Agile and DevOps approaches challenging architectural discipline is a nice way of saying most of us have completely forgotten how to build deterministic systems. Time-triggered Ethernet with strict frame scheduling feels like it's from a parallel universe compared to how we ship software now.

> “Modern Agile and DevOps approaches prioritize iteration, which can challenge architectural discipline,” Riley explained. “As a result, technical debt accumulates, and maintainability and system resiliency suffer.” Not sure i agree with the premise that "doing agile" implies decision making at odds with architecture: you can still iterate on architecture. Terraform etc make that very easy. Sure, tech debt accumulat…

Agile is like communism. Whenever something bad happens to people who practice agile, the explanation is that they did agile wrong, had they being doing the true agile, the problem would've been totally avoided.

In reality, agile doesn't mean anything. Anyone can claim to do agile. Anyone can be blamed for only pretending to do agile. There's no yardstick.

But it's also easy to understand what the author was trying to say, if we don't try to defend or blame a particular fashionable ideology. I've worked on projects that required high quality of code and product reliability and those that had no such requirement. There is, indeed, a very big difference in approach to the development process. Things that are often associated with agile and DevOps are bad for developing high-quality reliable programs. Here's why:

The development process before DevOps looked like this:

    1. Planning
    2. Programming
    3. QA
    4. If QA found problems, goto 2
    5. Release
The "smart" idea behind DevOps, or, as it used to be called at the time "shift left" was to start QA before the whole of programming was done, in parallel with the development process, so that the testers wouldn't be idling for a year waiting for the developers to deliver the product to testers and the developers would have faster feedback to the changes they make. Iterating on this idea was the concept of "continuous delivery" (and that's where DevOps came into play: they are the ones, fundamentally, responsible to make this happen). Continuous delivery observed that since developers are getting feedback sooner in the development process, the release, too, may be "shifted left", thus starting the marketing and sales earlier.

Back in those days, however, it was common to expect that testers will be conducting a kind of a double-blindfolded experiment. I.e. testers weren't supposed to know the ins and outs of the code intentionally, s.t. they don't, inadvertently, side with the developers on whatever issues they discover. Something that today, perhaps, would've been called "black-box testing". This became impossible with CD because testers would be incrementally exposed to the decisions governing the internal workings of the product.

Another aspect of the more rigorous testing is the "mileage". Critical systems, normally, aren't released w/o being run intensively for a very long time, typically orders of magnitude longer than the single QA cycle (let's say, the QA gets a day of computer time to run their tests, then the mileage needs to be a month or so). This is a very inconvenient time for development, as feature freeze and code freeze are still in effect, so the coding can only happen in the next version of the product (provided it's even planned). But, the incremental approach used by CD managed to sell a lie that says that "we've ran the program for a substantial amount of time during all the increments we've made so far, therefore we don't need to collect more mileage". This, of course, overlooks the fact that changes in the program don't contribute proportionally to the program's quality or performance.

In other words, what I'm trying to say is that agile or DevOps practices allowed to make the development process cheaper by making it faster while still maintaining some degree of quality control, however they are inadequate for products with high quality requirements because they don't address the worst case scenarios.

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#197
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mises never claimed that the free market produced the most optimal solutions at a given moment. In fact Mises explicitly stated many times that the free market does indeed incur in semi-frequent self-corrections, speculations and manipulations by the agents. What Mises proposition was - in essence - is that an autonomous market with enough agents participating in it will reach an optimal Nash equilibrium where both o…

The problem with this is that "breaking the Nash equilibrium momentarily" is a spherical cow. "Momentarily" can mean years or even decades, and millions of people can suffer or die as a result.

Markets do not model that especially well. When it comes down to these situations, it's not about the rising price of food motivating producers to enter the market - it's about the people starving. During a war, no amount of money can cause more munitions to appear fast enough. Blast-resistant concrete can take weeks or months to cure, workforces take time to train. These "momentary" disruptions can swamp the whole.

Re: How NASA built Artemis II’s fault-tolerant computer

#200
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mises never claimed that the free market produced the most optimal solutions at a given moment. In fact Mises explicitly stated many times that the free market does indeed incur in semi-frequent self-corrections, speculations and manipulations by the agents. What Mises proposition was - in essence - is that an autonomous market with enough agents participating in it will reach an optimal Nash equilibrium where both o…

So it will reach equilibrium unless literally anything disrupts that equilibrium. Got it.

The free market tends to equilibrium yes. That indeed is a novel realization.
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