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Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

freebsdfoundation.github.io

191–200 of 206 posts

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now it can be better or worse, and right now it's never been better. There was a time when your language, your shell and your operating system were specific to the exact model of comput No, it is not. There was a small period of time between the 90s and the 2010s where you could grab almost every 386 OS and have your hardware mostly decently run for it, and if not, drivers would be easily written from manufacturer…

> There was a small period of time between the 90s and the 2010s where you could grab almost every 386 OS and have your hardware mostly decently run for it And prior to that, you could grab every OS running on IBM clones and not have to worry about graphics drivers at all, because graphics acceleration wasn't a thing. The era you refer to had already introduced software contingency on hardware within x86. This dispar…

> And prior to that, you could grab every OS running on IBM clones and not have to worry about graphics drivers at all, because graphics acceleration wasn't a thing. The era you refer to had already introduced software contingency on hardware within x86. This disparity was further compounded in the mid-2010s as GPUs exploded in complexity and their drivers screamed into tens of millions of lines of code, eclipsing kernels themselves.

Not at all; I excluded this early era because you could _not_ be sure to find an OS that would support your graphics card at all, other than maybe what the BIOS supported. I am talking about the 90s because GPUs already had plenty of non-BIOS-supported features, like multiple CRTCs, weird fixed acceleration pipelines, weird coprocessors with random ISAs, and yet you could still find operating systems with 3rd party drivers supporting them.

It is a _perfectly_ distinguishable era. See how many OSes support 3D cards from the era like i9xx. Heck, FreeBSD itself qualifies, but also BeOS and many others.

In addition, I am talking about the _kernel_ part, which by any logic should be ridiculously simple. E.g. this is not a compiler to a random ISA or anything like that. It is what in Linux you would call a DRM driver, and the only reason they are complex and millions of LoCs is that they are under-specified, by AMD and the rest. Most of lines of AMD driver code in Linux are the register indices for each and every card submodel (yes, really, header files!), when it is clearly that before they would just have standarized on one set and abstracted from it. Compare AtomBIOS support in cards from a decade ago and cards from today. It is literally easier today for a 3rd party to implement support for the more complicated parts of the GPU (e.g. running compute code!), which AMD more or less documents, than it is to support basic modesetting support as it was in the 00s. This has happened!

Hardware may be more complicated, but interfaces needn't be more complicated. This, I believe, is a symptom, not the cause.

> I just don't find it sad that my second desktop can't have an RX 9000 whatever in it. Where's the cut off line for that? Why not be sad that I can't jam a Fujitsu ARM processor into a PCIE slot as another type of satellite processor?

You do not find it sad that there is no longer any operating system other than Linux supporting any amount of hardware, simple or not ?

Also, you call every non-Linux OS as "esoteric" as a counter-argument to my point , yet you try to use support for definitely esoteric hardware (which would be even hard to acquire!) as an argument for your point, whatever it is ? When I'm complaining that I can no longer rely on FreeBSD, literally the 2nd open OS with most hardware support, on supporting basic hardware (!) from this decade, when on the past I could more or less rely on _all_ BSDs supporting it, as well as a myriad other OSes , the argument that "oh well it never supported hardware that it is impossible to find in stores anyway, so I don't care" sounds pretty hollow.

Certainly even slightly deviating from the popular hardware has always resulted in diminishing returns, but today it is much worse, _except_ for Linux.

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#192

That's a very small list.

Yeah, compare to https://ubuntu.com/certified/laptops it is. Years ago, there was a project combining Debian with the kernel from FreeBSD. That never made sense to me and the project seems to have died meanwhile. More sensible, IMHO, might be to bolt the FreeBSD user space unto the Linux kernel. That way one would get fairly broad and current hardware support and could still enjoy a classic Unix look&feel and stable…

> More sensible, IMHO, might be to bolt the FreeBSD user space unto the Linux kernel.

Chimera Linux is doing something like this, although without aiming for the full BSD experience, just utilising its core userland [1]. The project is in an alpha stage.

1: https://chimera-linux.org/about#alternative-userland

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're looking at sub-$400 computers, especially on ARM, it seems like we have to include the large segment of ChromeOS devices that only run Linux out of the box (or at all, generally).

Referring to Intel Chromebooks (i.e. laptops), that segment is now dwindling in size much as its predecessor (Intel Windows netbooks) did a few years ago. Most low-end ChromeOS devices now run on ARM. And Android is nipping at their heels.

> Intel Windows netbooks

Netbooks were originally Linux. MSFT created a special licensing class just to try to undercut it. It wasn't great, but because Windows and Microsoft licensing, it quickly took off. People realized Windows on netbooks sucks, thought that meant that netbooks sucked, and eventually netbooks died. Until, arguably, ChromeOS arrived.

RIP, Linux netbooks of yore. I do miss you so.

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#194
post #122

Too many issues with Wifi and suspend, a part that the usage an performance are quite similar to Linux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZk6LTfqW30

Yeah. The reason is that a lot (almost all?) consumer hardware is broken, but in ways that either minimally impact Windows or which are worked around in drivers.

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#195

Interesting. I use FreeBSD on my desktop too but it's really a desktop so I don't have to bother with WiFi or bluetooth. I generally dislike laptops for ergonomic reasons, and I never bring my computers anywhere anyway so I just buy NUCs. Not having to buy for a display, keyboard, trackpad, battery helps keep the price down. I like it for several reasons. It's a holistic system which means it's much easier to underst…

I’m sorry to hijack this thread but can you run Ai agents like Claude or Cursor on BSD? I’m considering making a switch for development environment

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#196
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, searched this thread for docker hoping to realize I was behind the times and thinking surely it must work by now. It's so crazy that the BSDs have a reputation for stable, implying sysadmins and servers, then it won't support the one thing that every server needs. VMs running linux is the preferred path of least resistance then? Honestly you'd have to work hard to find a better way to alienate your target audien…

Jails is far superior to the kludge that is docker. “Every server” only needs docker if you’re asking the wrong questions

I'm sure it will be a great comfort to the last person left who knows what a jail is

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's better and worse in slightly different ways. On the one hand, yeah a Chromebook won't let you touch the default OS without switching to developer mode, and won't let you install a new OS without disabling the write-protect screw or firmware option. On the other hand, every ChromeOS device allows you to do exactly that, and then you can run whatever you want and you should have at least some support for u…

>By what definition is PMOS not a "full" distro? Can it run Sway window manager? Honest question.

Sure? Either standalone ( https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sway ) or with sxmo ( https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sxmo ) which is probably preferred on phones.

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#198

Interesting. I use FreeBSD on my desktop too but it's really a desktop so I don't have to bother with WiFi or bluetooth. I generally dislike laptops for ergonomic reasons, and I never bring my computers anywhere anyway so I just buy NUCs. Not having to buy for a display, keyboard, trackpad, battery helps keep the price down. I like it for several reasons. It's a holistic system which means it's much easier to underst…

I’m sorry to hijack this thread but can you run Ai agents like Claude or Cursor on BSD? I’m considering making a switch for development environment

Claude and opencode aren’t natively supported but there’s a Claude code package in the FreeBSD repos. For cursor, I have no idea.

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a thinkpad means using a device made by Lenovo, a company which has repeatedly shipped devices infected with malware and backdoors (sometimes for profit) see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_in...

He apparently wipes all of that when installing FreeBSD though.

I wouldn't trust their firmware/hardware anymore than I would their software. I wouldn't encourage them as a company either.

Re: Top laptops to use with FreeBSD

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would get a new laptop because a laptop without WiFi is useless. Why would you not just replace the wifi card or use a USB one? You're greatly overemphasizing how much this matters.

Replacing the wifi card isn't necessarily easy. I'd rather not buy and use a USB dongle for it if I can just get it out of the box. I remember doing those kind of things nearly two decades ago now, I don't expect to have to do that in 2026. If people want to, that's fine, but the parent comment is right here: giving it 9/10 without working wifi is ridiculous.

I replaced the wifi card on my XPS 13 (specifically to support FreeBSD, no less), and it took about five minutes and a Philips head screwdriver.

Look your complaint is valid, but I maintain that you're greatly overemphasizing its actual meaning.

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