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Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

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Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#191

Post by AdamN »

doikor wrote: post #66
gritspants wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the advantage of learning 'AI workflows'. I am in the US and there seems to be a FOMO plague infecting our school system when it comes to technology. In practice it seems more destructive to the child.

> I don't see the advantage of learning 'AI workflows'. This would be just the modern version of "Computer class" back in the day when we learned to use word, excel, etc. Just another tool among others that is helpful to learn but should be limited to that specific class. Though actual sad thing learning from friends with kids is that the modern "computer class" does not actually teach kids to use computers much thes…

Yeah I'd be happier if they learned how an Apollo computer worked (even though it has virtually no relevance) than how to use Excel.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#192

Post by eigenspace »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #21

> Basic skills — especially reading, writing, and numeracy — must be firmly established first, physical textbooks are often better suited for that purpose. Reading and writing, maybe, but numeracy? With a computer, you can get instant feedback, immidiately see whether you did the math correctly or not. With a textbook, you have to wait for your teacher.

Is the instant feedback actually beneficial for learning though?

I always found that rumination, doubt, and consideration took time and space.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#193

Post by scandox »

slibhb wrote: post #189

The attempt to restrict screentime is based on today's parents wanting their children to have the same experiences they did, i.e. screens were the exception not the rule in the 90s through the early 2000s. This impulse is understandable, but it's not really about improving learning. If the goal is actually to do a better job teaching kids, we need to better align incentives/minimize bureaucracy/measure outcomes bette…

Parents do care about improving learning. I certainly see better outcomes for my kids with book based learning. Mainly because the screen based equivalents have such bad ergonomics at the moment. E-learning "tools" that schools choose seem to be abysmally bad.

For the rest: yeah there's nothing more entrenched than the mindset of the people that run schools. They conceive of their school as the epicentre of all problems and solutions with respect to kids education. They cannot imagine they might be simply irrelevant on some issues.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#194

Post by buellerbueller »

slibhb wrote: post #189

The attempt to restrict screentime is based on today's parents wanting their children to have the same experiences they did, i.e. screens were the exception not the rule in the 90s through the early 2000s. This impulse is understandable, but it's not really about improving learning. If the goal is actually to do a better job teaching kids, we need to better align incentives/minimize bureaucracy/measure outcomes bette…

>The attempt to restrict screentime is based on today's parents wanting their children to have the same experiences they did, i.e. screens were the exception not the rule in the 90s through the early 2000s. This impulse is understandable, but it's not really about improving learning.

Allegations without evidence.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#195

Post by vincnetas »

yes, the distraction is real. How many times i was busy with my day job on some task when for some reason i had to wait for something (coworker reply, build to complete, approval to be granted) and automatically opened HN on in a new tab... 10 minutes of blackout and i'm on some random wikipedia page for no obvious reason related to my day job task... And i'm 40+ year old adult. Im scared to think what this level of distraction means for undeveloped brain.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#196

Post by arafeq »

BostonFern wrote: post #51
Gigachad wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would have disagreed as a kid, I very much agree now. Laptops were used more for flash games and reddit than learning in the classroom in my experience. And likely the act of reading physical books and handwriting is better for learning.

That anecdote sounds like a problem with discipline and ethics, not with technology.

[flagged]

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#197

Post by buellerbueller »

andrepd wrote: post #73
amonith wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. As a kid I could "entertain" (distract is the better word) myself by "drawing shapes" with the cursor, highlighting random things, switching between random cells in Excel, or just like... browsing through the system without any plan or reason. Procrastination is hell of a drug. I'm so lucky I didn't have this in the classroom.

To be fair, I did entertain myself by drawing comics on my notebook or playing with my pencil and rubber as if they were toy cars.

Congratulations, you were exercising your literacy and art skills.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#198

Post by knowaveragejoe »

Gigachad wrote: post #60
schnitzelstoat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite rare that it gives a wrong answer nowadays. Even more so if you ask it to use the internet etc. But yeah, it's not infallible and sometimes even when it gives you a source it will incorrectly summarise it, but you can double check the information in the source itself. It just makes it a lot easier to do quickly rather than having to go and find the right Wikipedia article or dig through lots of documentati…

Only if you are asking surface level questions. There are also certain topics that seem to be worse than others. For asking about how to do things in software guis modern LLMs seem to have a high rate of making up features or paths to reach them. For asking advice in games I've seen an extremely high rate of hallucinations. Asking why something is broken in my codebase has about a 95% hallucination rate. If you are j…

> Only if you are asking surface level questions.

I find it pretty accurate well beyond that level. How much of that is actually a problem in K-12 education?

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#199

Post by pier25 »

I worked in EdTech about a decade ago and our education/pedagogy experts were already talking about this. They also talked a lot about how handwriting is super important for cognitive development.

After working on that company for a couple of years I realized using tech in education (pre university) was a mistake. One of the reasons I left.

In a decade or two the long term consequences of inundating kids with tech and then removing it will be quite obvious. This will be studied for decades to come. Reminds me of the Dutch kids that were borm during the 1944-1945 Dutch famine.

https://www.ohsu.edu/school-of-medicine/moore-institute/dutc...

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#200

Post by knowaveragejoe »

andrepd wrote: post #70

Screens and computers are incredibly useful in education when they are used for some concrete purpose . Just think about how incredibly useful it is to use Desmos or Manim to explain certain mathematical concepts, as opposed to chalk on blackboard or print on paper. Replacing a paper book with the same pdf on an ipad screen though, has to be one of the most stupid ideas anyone could come up with.

This is all downstream of the backlash against social media and AI, and it's attacking the symptom rather than treating it IMO. You don't need to abandon digital tools entirely, you need to control how they're used in the classroom.

Not every kid can learn concepts just by having them explained verbally or with simple, inanimate diagrams. Desmos etc were incredibly valuable for unlocking certain concepts.

Also, you can't ctrl+f a textbook. Sure, you might find what you're looking for in an appendix or ToC.

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