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Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

agelesslinux.org

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Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#191

Post by anthonyIPH »

roenxi wrote: post #185
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

[flagged]

Interesting,are either of those two orgs you linked pushing the age verification policies that the article is rallying against? I would assume so since you posted them here, but it's unclear from the links Wikipedia pages you linked.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#192

Post by ThunderSizzle »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #121
nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

> Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications. This is absolutely not true. Here in the UK schools are swarming with ipads and shit like that. They're given to primary school children because they're "more engaging". Children are supposed to practice their reading and even handwriting[1] on ipads. Naturally they're on youtube instead. It's really bad. As far as…

Since schooling closer to home obviously solves this problem, and a host of many other problems, and doesn't introduce any real problems (bad schools don't save kids from bad parents, which seems to be a rebuttal to home-based education, it would seem to me the answer is obvious:

Return to a single income household economy and bring education closer to the home, if not outright in the home.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#193

Post by somat »

It is a stupid law but I feel people are overthinking this.

For compliance the os has to provide an age category to an application and an interface for the user to enter this data. We already have an api to provide information to applications. it's called the filesystem. and an interface to enter the data, that's called the shell. so everything is already there. If the user lives in california and wants to be compliant (wait a minute, let me stop laughing) all they have to do is put a file somewhere with a age category in it. if the application can't find it. well it's not their fault the law is stupid.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#194

Post by nullorempty »

nextos wrote: post #14

Something remarkable and unsettling is how the age verification debate has popped up almost simultaneously in the US, UK, and EU. With the same logical fallacies. Pretty telling about how transnational lobbies and their interests work. Controlling what children do online is a solved problem: Parenting and parental control applications.

It reaches far out, not just the West. China remains relatively immune. S. Korea and Japan immune to some degree. Russia, unfortunately, is not immune at all.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#195

Post by themafia »

terribleperson wrote: post #152
themafia wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I do not want an "API" in my OS to reveal information about me. I do not want this to operate without my consent. I do not want to be limited from accessing certain sites because I refuse to implement this. No age verification at the OS level. If Meta needs to verify ages for their _profitable_ business, that's entirely _their_ problem. Get your hands off my equipment.

It's not OS age verification. You put in an age. It does not check whether it's real. It does not ask for an ID. That will get provided to app stores and probably browsers. It should be possible to spoof, too. The primary use case of this, in my mind, is so that a parent can give their kid a PC and set an age on the user account, and that will result in them being unable to access a variety of content. Same thing for…

> It's not OS age verification.

The law specifically says your OS has to implement this API. It burdens my OS vendor with adding this. In this case, that's me, since I roll my own linux.

> That will get provided to app stores and probably browsers.

And how will they behave when my *OS* decides not to provide that signal? Which is what's going to happen since there's no way in hell I'm playing along with this garbage.

> is so that a parent can give their kid a PC and set an age on the user account

You're telling me there isn't any software which does this already? That are no third party packages a parent can buy to achieve this? Aside from that you're missing the blindingly obvious, without an audit trail, none of this matters. The third party software can actually do that. This cockamamie nonsense can't.

> You are already being limited from accessing certain sites

Oh yea? Which ones? From my perspective this has never happened.

> because those sites are going to ask you to provide an ID.

That's on them. That's a choice they have to make in the market. Perhaps that will allow a competitor to provide the same service, with better safety, and no ID checks. I will refuse to use any service that requires this.

If you have to show your ID to enter, that's a seedy place, and no where children should even be near. Why does social media need the same restrictions as pornography, drugs and hard liqour? Why is facebook even trying to profit off of this gap?

> If I'm remembering what I read, it actually bars them from trying to determine your age in other ways.

I believe you have remembered incorrectly. Please show me where this is a part of actual law. Then please explain to me why this is a good thing.

> the signal passed from OS to software

That's the problem. I don't care what it conveys or of it's "de-anonymizing" or not. If the software wants to know it can ask me directly. I don't want a law that requires my OS to provide _any_ information about me. Full stop.

It's just not _meaningful_. It does nothing. It does not protect children. It lets seedy backalley social media networks to profit off of their corruption. This is morally bent.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#196

Post by pocksuppet »

alpaca128 wrote: post #99
pocksuppet wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That is a very dishonest way of framing these laws. Parental control does not need violating the privacy of every computer user. Also sharing the user's personal information does not prevent gambling or protect children, it does the opposite.

These laws don't violate the privacy of every computer user. They say that a parent shall be able to mark a child's account as being under 18, and apps shall respect that.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#197

Post by pocksuppet »

alpaca128 wrote: post #106
pocksuppet wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting that you think whether someone is over 18 is a million times worse privacy invasion than their exact location, full name, browsing history, and date of birth. Can you substantiate why that is?

The former will be mandated by law, the cookie law requires a way to opt out. Why would you not prefer avoiding a privacy violation over a guaranteed one that is smaller...for now?

The former also makes it illegal for internet things to demand your ID to know if you're over 18. They have to trust the setting.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#198

Post by pocksuppet »

dataflow wrote: post #135
lambda wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the California/Colorado laws is to provide an alternative to that. The whole point is that it provides a privacy preserving way to provide a signal about whether someone is in a particular age bracket, without requiring any kind of third party ID verification. I am so puzzled by everyone who objects so strongly to these operating system based opt in systems; all it does is provide for a way for a p…

I had the same reaction as you this entire time until half an hour ago when I saw the second link in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47382650 Meta being behind all of these efforts makes it incredibly suspicious, especially given the New York law is ridiculously more invasive than the California one. It sure makes it seem like there's likely a larger plan here that this is merely facilitating. So I…

The larger plan is probably to avoid banning social media for under-18s

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#199

Post by pocksuppet »

macintux wrote: post #126
lambda wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the California/Colorado laws is to provide an alternative to that. The whole point is that it provides a privacy preserving way to provide a signal about whether someone is in a particular age bracket, without requiring any kind of third party ID verification. I am so puzzled by everyone who objects so strongly to these operating system based opt in systems; all it does is provide for a way for a p…

> I am so puzzled by everyone who objects so strongly to these operating system based opt in systems The government legislating APIs is an uncomfortable precedent given the culture wars that are raging right now. There seems little reason to expect this will stop here.

What does "the government legislating APIs" mean? The ADA means every OS has to support screen readers.

Re: Ageless Linux – Software for humans of indeterminate age

#200

Post by bdangubic »

themafia wrote: post #195
terribleperson wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not OS age verification. You put in an age. It does not check whether it's real. It does not ask for an ID. That will get provided to app stores and probably browsers. It should be possible to spoof, too. The primary use case of this, in my mind, is so that a parent can give their kid a PC and set an age on the user account, and that will result in them being unable to access a variety of content. Same thing for…

> It's not OS age verification. The law specifically says your OS has to implement this API. It burdens my OS vendor with adding this. In this case, that's me, since I roll my own linux. > That will get provided to app stores and probably browsers. And how will they behave when my *OS* decides not to provide that signal? Which is what's going to happen since there's no way in hell I'm playing along with this garbage.…

> Why does social media need the same restrictions as pornography?

this one is easy, as a parent I would rather have my daughter watch 10,000 hours of pornography than spent 1 hour on social media

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