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Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

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191–200 of 308 posts

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#191

My two cents: I've been coding practically my entire life, but a few years back I sustained a pretty significant and lasting injury to my wrists. As such, I have very little tolerance for typing. It's been quite a problem and made full time work impossible. With the advent of LLMs, AI-autocomplete, and agent-based development workflows, my ability to deliver reliable, high-quality code is restored and (arguably) bett…

> I'd MUCH rather see a holistic embrace and integration of these tools into our ecosystems. I understand that your use case is different, so AI may help handicapped people. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that the term AI encompasses many things, and a lot of AI led to quality decay. There is a reason why Microsoft is now called Microslop. Personally I'd much prefer for AI to go away. It won't go away, of co…

> There is a reason why Microsoft is now called Microslop.

Because young people repeat things they see on social media?

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#192

My two cents: I've been coding practically my entire life, but a few years back I sustained a pretty significant and lasting injury to my wrists. As such, I have very little tolerance for typing. It's been quite a problem and made full time work impossible. With the advent of LLMs, AI-autocomplete, and agent-based development workflows, my ability to deliver reliable, high-quality code is restored and (arguably) bett…

Similar story, albeit not so extreme. I have similar ergonomic issues that crop up from time to time. My programming is not so impacted (spend more time thinking than typing, etc), but things like email, documentation, etc can be brutal (a lot more computer usage vs programming). My simple solution: I use Whisper to transcribe my text, and feed the output to an LLM for cleanup (custom prompt). It's fantastic . Way be…

> I'm going to play with getting Gemini to look at the photo of the receipt and categorize and add up the categories for me.

FWIW, I have a pet project for a family recipe book. I normalize all recipes to a steps/instructions/ingredients JSON object. A webapp lets me snap photos of my old recipes and AI reliably yields perfectly structured objects back. The only thing I've had to fix is odd punctuation. For production, use is low, so `gemini-2.5-flash` works great and the low rate limits are fine. For development the `gemma-3-27b-it` model has MUCH higher limits and still does suprisingly well.

I'd bet you can pull this off and be very happy with the result.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#193

I don't understand a lot of the anti-LLM venom within this specific context. Debian doesn't have to worry about stealing GPL code, so the copyright argument is nearly nil. There's still the matter of attribution-ware, but Debian includes tons of attribution and I'm sure would happily include anyone who thinks their OSS might have been trained on. So leaving that aside, it just seems to be the revulsion that programme…

Before LLM did code, you could at least have assumed that the submitter had written it (at worst, copy-pasted large parts of it), even if they had not read or reviewed it. Furthermore, writing (even copy pasting) is quite labour intensive, so there was that hurdle too.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#194
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd MUCH rather see a holistic embrace and integration of these tools into our ecosystems. Telling people "no AI!" (even if very well defined on what that means) is toothless against people with little regard for making the world (or just one specific repo) a better place. That doesn't address the controversy because you are a reasonable person assuming that other people using AI are reasonable like you, and know h…

>other people are reasonable like you No AI needed. Spam on the internet is a great example of the amount of unreasonable people on the internet. And for this I'll define unreasonable as "committing an action they would not want committed back at them". AI here is the final nail in the coffin that many sysadmins have been dealing with for decades. And that is that unreasonable actors are a type of asymmetric warfare…

> AI here is the final nail in the coffin

so far*

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#195
post #26

Very reasonable stance. I see reviewing and accepting a PR is a question of trust - you trust the submitter to have done the most he can for the PR to be correct and useful. Something might be required now as some people might think that just asking an LLM is "the most he can done", but it's not about using AI it's about being aware and responsible about using it.

> I see reviewing and accepting a PR is a question of trust I think that's backwards, at least as far as accepting a PR. Better that all code is reviewed as if it is probably a carefully thought out Trojan horse from a dedicated enemy until proven otherwise.

I think this is actually a healthy stance. If you want to maintain patches against a project, just maintain a fork the project and if I want to pull in your changes I will. No direct submissions accepted is not the worst policy I think

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#196
post #139

My question on AI generated contributions and content in general: on a long enough timeline, with ever improving advancements in AI, how can people reliably tell the difference between human and AI generated efforts? Sure now it is easy, but in 3-10 years AI will get significantly better. It is a lot like the audio quality of an MP3 recording. It is not perfect (lossless audio is better), but for the majority of user…

The system works because responsibility sits with the submitter

Whether the quality of the code is the responsibility of the submitter or not is kind of irrelevant though, because the cost of verifying that quality still falls on the maintainer. If every submitter could be trusted to do their due diligence then this cost would be less, but unfortunately they can't; it's human nature to take every possible shortcut.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sign off the code and put your expertise and reputation behind it, AI becomes just an advanced autocomplete tool and, as such, should not count in “no AI” rules. It’s ok to use it, if that enables you to work.

> If you sign off the code and put your expertise and reputation behind it, AI becomes just an advanced autocomplete tool and, as such, should not count in “no AI” rules. No, it's not that simple. AI generated code isn't owned by anyone, it can't be copyrighted, so it cannot be licensed. This matters for open source projects that care about licensing. It should also matter for proprietary code bases, as anyone can co…

> No, it's not that simple. AI generated code isn't owned by anyone, it can't be copyrighted, so it cannot be licensed.

There is no way to reliably identify code as AI-generated, unless it is explicitly labelled so. Good code produced by AI is not different from the good code produced by software engineer, so copyright is the last thing I would be worried about. Especially given the fact that reviewing all pull requests is substantial curation work on the side of maintainers: even if submitted code is not copyrightable, the final product is.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't think others deserve a voice, so why should I consider his?

The fact that you are engaging in this thread shows me you have considered my opinions, even if you reject them. I think thats great, even in the face of being told I advocate for the collapse of civilization and that I want others to shut up and not be heard. It is a bit insulting, but I get that these issues are important and people feel like the stakes are sky-high: job loss, misallocation of resources, enshitific…

Sure. I don't necessarily think your opinion is radical. But it's also important to consider biases within oneself, especially when making use of text as a medium where the nuance of body language is lost.

The main thing that put me off on the comment was the outright dismissal of other opinions. That's rarely a recipe for a productive conversation.

>However, I disagree with these conclusions (so far) and especially that AI is a unique danger to humanity. I

I don't think it's unique. It's simply a catalyst. In good times with a system that looks out for its people, AI could do great things and accelerate productivity. It could even create jobs. None of that is out of reach, in theory.

But part of understanding the negative sentiment is understanding that we aren't in that high trust society with systems working for the citizen. So any bouts of productivity will only be used to accelerate that distrust. Looking at the marketing of AI these past few years confirms this. So why would anyone trust it this time?

Rampant layoffs, vague hand waves of "UBI will help" despite no structures in place for that, more than a dozen high profile kerfuffles that can only be described as a grift that made millions anyway, and persistent lobbying to try and make it illegal to regulate AI. These aren't the actions of people who have the best interests of the public masses in mind. It's modern day robber barons.

>I think OSS projects stand to benefit (increasingly so as improvements continue) from AI and should avoid taking hardline stances against it.

I don't have a hard line stance on how organizations handle AI. But from my end I hear that Ai has mostly lead to being a stressor on contributors trying to weed out the flood of low quality submissions. Ai or not (again, Ai is a catalyst. Not the root cause), that's a problem for what's ultimately a volunteer position that requires highly specialized skills.

If the choice comes between banning Ai submissions, restricting submissions altogether with a different system, or burning out talent trying to review all this slop: I don't think most orgs will choose the latter.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#199
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now, AI is generating whole stack applications that run from the first try I sincerely doubt that, because it still can't even generate a few hundred line script that runs on the first try. I would know, I just tried yesterday. The first attempt was using hallucinated APIs and while I did get it to work eventually, I don't think it can one shot a complex application if it can't one shot a simple script. IMO, AI has…

What tool did you use ? I routinely generate applications for my personal use using OpenCode + Claude Sonnet/Opus. Yesterday I generated an app for my son to learn multiplication tables using spaced repetition algorithm and score keeping. It took me like 5 minutes. Of course if you use ChatGPT it will not work but there is no way Claude Code/Open Code with any modern model isn't able to generate a one hundred line sc…

Are we still doing the "your fault for not using this other model" thing? It's a bit of a tired trope at this point.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#200

My question on AI generated contributions and content in general: on a long enough timeline, with ever improving advancements in AI, how can people reliably tell the difference between human and AI generated efforts? Sure now it is easy, but in 3-10 years AI will get significantly better. It is a lot like the audio quality of an MP3 recording. It is not perfect (lossless audio is better), but for the majority of user…

https://xkcd.com/810/

I know it's a cliche but it's just too perfect to answer this question.

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