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India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

bbc.com

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Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#191

Post by JimTheMan »

raincole wrote: post #54
cmiles8 wrote: post #14

There will be many more things like this and it’s an elephant in the room for the supposed mass replacement of people with AI. Some human still has to be accountable. Someone has to get fired / go to jail when something screws up. You can make humans more productive but for the foreseeable future you can’t take the human out of the loop to have an AI implementation that’s not a disaster/lawsuit waiting to happen. Tha…

I don't believe most countries hold judges accountable for bad ruling at all even before AI era. "Check and balance, except judiciary."

The appeals court should make a ruling on this.

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#192

Post by ionwake »

Hendrikto wrote: post #45
ionwake wrote: post #35

one should also consider that even with fake hallucinated AI situation, the productivity and correctness of the work produced by the culprit ( in general ) may still have been of higher quality then before AI regardless of the fails

Hard to believe when this judge apparently thought that outsourcing their — extremely confidential, sensitive, and important — work to a known unreliable tool was a good idea. And then further thought that they apparently did not even need to check the results. Sound like extreme incompetence or laziness.

good point. I was thinking of jobs where you can put stuff into the Ai. No need for the downvotes my point still holds

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#193

Post by love2read »

dang wrote: post #189
refulgentis wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it caught one of four :) because it's unclear what "works" means, I spelled it all out. :)

I guess if it catches some but not all, that's better than catching zero, but then what is the false positive rate? Randomness would also catch 'some but not all', after all.

I would think that you would just send posts with a prediction rate > X to the mod queue as auto-flagged

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#194

Post by dang »

love2read wrote: post #193
dang wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if it catches some but not all, that's better than catching zero, but then what is the false positive rate? Randomness would also catch 'some but not all', after all.

I would think that you would just send posts with a prediction rate > X to the mod queue as auto-flagged

Assuming that the false positive rate is low enough. That's the question, no?

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#195

Post by dartharva »

rramadass wrote: post #161
dartharva wrote: post #42

The scary thing is that Indian juduciary is infamous for being incapable of tolerating any kind of criticism against it and not hesitating to put people in jail for "contempt" for just calling out corruption. Imagine the official courts of 1.4B+ people being run by such braindead narcissists, now unhindered with having to even pretend to do their jobs as they just offload everything to AI tools.

You are way off-base here; see - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47235274

See - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47236336

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#196

Post by boruto »

thisisit wrote: post #125

It's sad that it took the highest court in the country to point out lack of professionalism and misconduct. The judge took no personal responsibility. > She told the court that this was her first time using an AI tool and she had believed the citations to be "genuine". She had no intention to misquote or misrepresent the rulings and that "the mistake occurred solely due to the reliance on an automatic source", the hi…

> The judge took no personal responsibility.

Thats par for Indian judicial system. Simple civil cases run for several decades, the judges are all(yes everyone) is corrupt. Basically nothing works. It has been like this for several decades.

LLM slop is least of its problems.

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#197

Post by torben-friis »

gortok wrote: post #132
torben-friis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an even clearer case than usual. With software engineers and office work you don’t have legal limitations on who can perform the work, but they exist for lawyers and doctors for example. So if this is a tool, the fault lies fully in the user, and if this is treated as “another persons work” then the user knowingly passed the work onto someone not authorized to do it. Both end up in the user being guil…

> So if this is a tool, the fault lies fully in the user, and if this is treated as “another persons work” then the user knowingly passed the work onto someone not authorized to do it. Both end up in the user being guilty. I am particularly against this point of view, because we as a community have long touted how computers can do the job better and faster, and that computers don’t make mistakes. When there are bugs,…

You used to trust excel is reliable. You used to also choose to use excel, rather than “Bobby’s super duper calculator”.

The choice of tool is assumed to require expertise. I am not opposed to ai companies being sued for invalid expectations, but I don’t think they have at any point expressed that their current product can be used unsupervised in substitution of a professional.

In other words, companies are to blame for offering professional solutions that aren’t up to the task, but it’s up to every person to not use blindly whatever the conman of the day offers.

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#198

Post by AlotOfReading »

blackoil wrote: post #172
AlotOfReading wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you've ever been to India, but one of its characteristic features is that it has lots of local languages. LLMs are awful at almost all of them. Plus, there's 20ish% of the population that falls below the literacy threshold. It's hard to imagine how those people would be educated by LLMs even if that was a good idea and they all had reliable Internet access, which they often don't.

Your comment raises question, if you have ever been to India. Most of those 20% are old people. K-12 education need to be improved but literacy is not a major problem. Also India has cheapest internet in the world.

Cheap doesn't mean universal. Access is uneven across India. Jammu & Kashmir for example, and ladakh have different kinds of issues.

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#199

Post by alok-g »

cmiles8 wrote: post #14

There will be many more things like this and it’s an elephant in the room for the supposed mass replacement of people with AI. Some human still has to be accountable. Someone has to get fired / go to jail when something screws up. You can make humans more productive but for the foreseeable future you can’t take the human out of the loop to have an AI implementation that’s not a disaster/lawsuit waiting to happen. Tha…

>> Some human still has to be accountable. Someone has to get fired / go to jail when something screws up.

It does not happen this way there even with just humans presiding. Judgments written by humans there are on an average total garbage.

Edit: Someone wrote a similar comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47244909

Re: India's top court angry after junior judge cites fake AI-generated orders

#200

Post by littlecorner »

cmiles8 wrote: post #14

There will be many more things like this and it’s an elephant in the room for the supposed mass replacement of people with AI. Some human still has to be accountable. Someone has to get fired / go to jail when something screws up. You can make humans more productive but for the foreseeable future you can’t take the human out of the loop to have an AI implementation that’s not a disaster/lawsuit waiting to happen. Tha…

>>Some human still has to be accountable. Someone has to get fired / go to jail when something screws up.

Now I'm trying to imagine a way they could apply a criminal charge against an AI in such a way that it would prevent the AI from being used in official capacity or something

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