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Why isn't LA repaving streets?

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Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#191

Post by ndriscoll »

scoofy wrote: post #184
ndriscoll wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I look at a city/county budget, the schools absolutely dwarf everything else (it's not quick to disentangle different levels of government, but roughly speaking, it seems like schools are usually roughly the same cost as all other services combined where I've looked), which makes it hard for me to take seriously the idea that it's infrastructure like roads and sewage specifically leading to unsustainable b…

When you are looking at your city budget... you're probably looking at cash-based accounting: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cashaccounting.asp This looks at current costs . The school is a cost every year, so every year that cost shows up on the budget. The problem is that road/water/sewer maintenance often doesn't show up on these budgets because these systems are usually built all at once. Because of this th…

Capital improvements don't need to be paid all at once; that's what financing is for. And debt service does appear on budgets. In any case, why are we to believe that e.g. $1B in maintenance that's been deferred for decades is "the" problem when the school budget is $500M/year?

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#192

Post by tokioyoyo »

stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

The one thing I noticed in NA is that it takes ages to rebuild a road. I have close to zero experience in road construction, but a bit weird to see how they can repave a km stretch of a road here in Tokyo within a week or two, but it took months in other cities i've lived in.

Maybe they do a lot of extra work over night over here in Tokyo, and it just goes faster? Or it's a very systematic thing and part of the maintenance schedules, so it doesn't really go that bad?

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#193

Post by qball »

nine_k wrote: post #100
bigbadfeline wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs Maybe not. Due to battery weight, EVs are super heavy even if they aren't SUVs, so are delivery trucks without which an urban community cannot and will not exist. Urban roads should be able to handle the weight even if everyone converted to EVs.

This has little to do with EVs, and much more to do with the idea that whoever brings a heavier vehicle to collision, wins (and lives). Hence the propensity to drive truck-sized SUVs and actual F-150s with just the driver, and the light load, but the pleasant feeling of safety . Who's gonna survive in an incident of road rage gone bad, a Ford Explorer or a Fiat 500? Coming back to the EVs, a small EV is a possibility…

>it takes less power to move a lighter and smaller car

A smaller car has less space for battery than an SUV. Because batteries are extremely heavy, that smaller car needs to be overbuilt compared to its gasoline counterpart, which further reduces room for battery. Then, because safety standards are harder to meet with small cars, the smaller car needs to be overbuilt even more.

This means that you get cars that only have half the range a gasoline-powered car does, and the gas powered car recharges an order of magnitude faster than the EV does. Oh yeah, and the people who buy smaller cars like this tend to live in places where there's no charging other than going to a gas station anyway.

It wouldn't sell on the US market because better alternatives exist. It could sell on the Chinese market because there are no better alternatives.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#194

Post by lokar »

scoofy wrote: post #70

I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesi…

The city of Los Angeles is pretty dense.

Also, in 2025 they spent 3 times as much dealing with legal fallout from police misconduct compared to street maintenance.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#196

Post by Spooky23 »

scoofy wrote: post #184
ndriscoll wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I look at a city/county budget, the schools absolutely dwarf everything else (it's not quick to disentangle different levels of government, but roughly speaking, it seems like schools are usually roughly the same cost as all other services combined where I've looked), which makes it hard for me to take seriously the idea that it's infrastructure like roads and sewage specifically leading to unsustainable b…

When you are looking at your city budget... you're probably looking at cash-based accounting: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cashaccounting.asp This looks at current costs . The school is a cost every year, so every year that cost shows up on the budget. The problem is that road/water/sewer maintenance often doesn't show up on these budgets because these systems are usually built all at once. Because of this th…

That’s absolutely untrue. The only reason companies track depreciation as they do is because it allows them to defer taxation. Public works projects are not paid out of current cash.

Strong Towns makes good arguments about certain things and are critical in a reasonable way of how civil engineering organizations rate the need for more civil engineering works. But the budget discussion makes zero sense.

The biggest expenses for county, city, town, village government are: schools, police & fire, Medicaid share in states that do that, and employee retirement and health. A small/midsize city spends 60% of its budget on police.

Capital projects are capitalized with bonds. Governments have the lowest bond expenses due to tax exemptions. Roadwork is not done in a cash basis. It’s bonded for 10-30 years depending on the job.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#197

Post by [deleted] »

lokar wrote: post #194
scoofy wrote: post #70

I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesi…

The city of Los Angeles is pretty dense. Also, in 2025 they spent 3 times as much dealing with legal fallout from police misconduct compared to street maintenance.

[deleted]

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#198

Post by nomel »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #13

US cities over the past decade seem to be in a competition to see who can be the least competently run.

I would like to see the relation between competence and strength of political alignment (as in, deviation from 50/50 red/blue vote for local government).

I naively expect that less strongly aligned cities are run more competently, because the concept of "consequences" can exist. Where I am, there's a very strong political alignment, so no consequences at all. The same group of people will be voted for, no matter what they do.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#199

Post by scoofy »

ndriscoll wrote: post #191
scoofy wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are looking at your city budget... you're probably looking at cash-based accounting: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cashaccounting.asp This looks at current costs . The school is a cost every year, so every year that cost shows up on the budget. The problem is that road/water/sewer maintenance often doesn't show up on these budgets because these systems are usually built all at once. Because of this th…

Capital improvements don't need to be paid all at once; that's what financing is for. And debt service does appear on budgets. In any case, why are we to believe that e.g. $1B in maintenance that's been deferred for decades is "the" problem when the school budget is $500M/year?

You’re making an argument about school budgets being too high. That’s fine. I’m arguing that, our school budgets are set, in large part, by our available resources. Viewing our resources from a long run perspective helps us set our current budgets.

If we cut the school budget only when we need to repave roads, we are playing fast and loose with our children’s future. When we set our budgets to be sustainable, we don’t rug pull parents who are trying to build a life in our cities.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#200

Post by nomel »

SimianSci wrote: post #104
t1234s wrote: post #55

I think they built the majority of the Eisenhower Interstate System in 15 years. Now we cant figure out how to pave roads.

Cutting taxes has consequences. Americans have enjoyed a huge increase to their living standards over the years and have become decoupled from many of the services that their taxes fund. In turn, large swaths of the populace are insulated from the consequences of degrading government services and infrastructure. This has caused a shift in attitudes towards taxes as most of these Americans no longer see the benefit of…

If you look at the budgets, there's also a severe spending and mismanagement problem.
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