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Privilege is bad grammar

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Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#191

Post by WalterBright »

anonymars wrote: post #153
WalterBright wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember wandering into Cartier's in NYC dressed in my shaggy jeans and t-shirt. They didn't throw me out, but a security guard followed me around, definitely edging into my personal space to make me uncomfortable. I laughed, said I get it, looked a bit more, and left. I remember the days when you were expected to wear a suit on a jet, even the kids. These days, even the first class travelers wear track shorts. I k…

> I kinda wish the airlines would have a dress code I'd take a code of conduct before the dress code. Though, appropriately enough, I suppose the latter signals the former

Decent people don't need a code of conduct.

There's been pressure on the D Language Foundation to have a CoC. I've consistently refused one. The only thing I demand is "professional conduct". Sometimes people ask me what professional conduct is. I reply with:

1. ask your mother

2. failing that, I recommend Emily Post's book on Business Etiquette.

And an amazing thing happened. Everyone in the D forums behaves professionally. Every once in a while someone new will test this, their posts get deleted, and then they leave or behave professionally.

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#192

Post by card_zero »

ahartman00 wrote: post #179
StevenWaterman wrote: post #4

This is almost textbook countersignalling. The same as: - Signalling: I dress more formally than everyone else to make up for the fact I'm less professional in other ways - No signalling: I dress like everyone else because I am like everyone else - Countersignalling: I wear ratty old clothes with holes in them, and nobody will dare to question it because I'm the important one here

Using this logic, all of the homeless people are counter signaling then. And there are plenty of executives who wear suits. Also signaling has one l, so thus you are signaling your importance. Or maybe you just can't assume you know what's going on inside someone else's head.

What illogical speling.

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#193

Post by marcus_holmes »

simon666 wrote: post #184
dwaltrip wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s quite a difference… The expected or assumed signal can differ radically from the perceived signal, often in surprising ways. People spend so much energy doing things based on untrue assumptions about what others are thinking. And this is before we even get into how much one should adjust their behavior based on someone else’s perception.

Yeah similarly we can make a few distinctions here: 1) Intended signal, true 2) Unintended signal, but true 3) Unintended signal, but false (Sure, 1' intended but false; though not really important here) When (1) obtains we can describe this situation as one where sender and received coordinate on a message. When (2) obtains we can say the sender acted in a way that indicative of some fact or other and the received i…

Also remember that each recipient of the signal will have their own reaction to it. What signals professional competence to one person can signal lickspittle corporate toadying to another.

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#194

Post by kmijyiyxfbklao »

ahartman00 wrote: post #179
StevenWaterman wrote: post #4

This is almost textbook countersignalling. The same as: - Signalling: I dress more formally than everyone else to make up for the fact I'm less professional in other ways - No signalling: I dress like everyone else because I am like everyone else - Countersignalling: I wear ratty old clothes with holes in them, and nobody will dare to question it because I'm the important one here

Using this logic, all of the homeless people are counter signaling then. And there are plenty of executives who wear suits. Also signaling has one l, so thus you are signaling your importance. Or maybe you just can't assume you know what's going on inside someone else's head.

I don't think it counts as counter-signaling if can call him out.

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#195

Post by jscd »

parpfish wrote: post #32

if i sent an email to my ceo and they replied with typos and bad grammar, i wouldn't think "wow, they are flexing their privilege to be able to do that". i would be excited that i'm being treated as a member of the inner circle and they can speak freely and casually with me.

I can kinda see your point, especially if the meaning is still obvious and the tone is inviting you to participate, but I think you're misunderstanding what "privilege" means here.

It isn't a superior "flexing their privilege" over their subordinates. The superior doesn't care. They don't even think about it. Because they have power over you, they can just speak gibberish and you have to figure it out. In my opinion, a good boss should have enough respect for me to not waste my time by forcing me to decipher a thought they didn't even read before sending.

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#196

Post by npilk »

I wonder if this has implications for AI alignment? Maybe prompting with poor spelling and grammar will make the AI eager to please the privileged, high-power user. (/s)

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#197

Post by asveikau »

rbanffy wrote: post #141

This is a bit in the same direction as Epstein’s horrible tech higiene- using computers with outdated software, little or no cryptography, and so on. Another person summarised it quite well: “too rich to care”.

Maybe he considered himself beyond prosecution. So he didn't care that he arranged trafficking on Gmail under his real name.

Additionally, if Gmail is a problem, Sergey Brin went to his events.

In one document drop Joi Ito is asking him about security hygiene and saying he is "worried about his emails".

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#198

Post by anonymars »

WalterBright wrote: post #191
anonymars wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I kinda wish the airlines would have a dress code I'd take a code of conduct before the dress code. Though, appropriately enough, I suppose the latter signals the former

Decent people don't need a code of conduct. There's been pressure on the D Language Foundation to have a CoC. I've consistently refused one. The only thing I demand is "professional conduct". Sometimes people ask me what professional conduct is. I reply with: 1. ask your mother 2. failing that, I recommend Emily Post's book on Business Etiquette. And an amazing thing happened. Everyone in the D forums behaves profess…

I meant for flights (edited accordingly). In both cases I think "don't be a dick" probably would go most of the way

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#199

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #187
saghm wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I kinda wish the airlines would have a dress code What? Why? Are you really that bothered by other people wearing stuff that you wouldn't personally want to wear? I can't even imagine going through life with strong feelings about how other people should dress; it legitimately sounds exhausting.

Would you go to a wedding dressed like a slob? Would you go to an elegant restaurant in sweats? If you go to pick up your date, and she opens the door wearing track shorts and a worn t-shirt, how would you feel? When I'd pick up my date, and she had obviously spent a lot of time on her appearance, it'd make me feel like a million bucks.

P.S. If you're a real estate agent, and you drive to a customer in a shoddy car, you aren't going to make a sale.

Re: Privilege is bad grammar

#200

Post by netsharc »

bonoboTP wrote: post #9
StevenWaterman wrote: post #4

This is almost textbook countersignalling. The same as: - Signalling: I dress more formally than everyone else to make up for the fact I'm less professional in other ways - No signalling: I dress like everyone else because I am like everyone else - Countersignalling: I wear ratty old clothes with holes in them, and nobody will dare to question it because I'm the important one here

On the positive side of this, research papers by competent people read very clearly with readable sentences, while those who are afraid that their content doesn't quite cut it, litter it with jargon, long complicated sentences, hoping that by making things hard, they will look smart. But to expand on the spelling topic, good spelling and grammar is now free with AI tools. It no longer signals being educated. Informal…

A friend of mine (non-native English speaker) said she's been talking to a guy (also non-native) on a dating app. She said he was very articulate and showed me some screenshots.

One sentence he sent was "Family is paramount for you.". I told her "I bet you he's using ChatGPT"..

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