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Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

arstechnica.com

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Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#191

Post by dctoedt »

like_any_other wrote: post #190
dctoedt wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody has been killed that wasn’t carrying a gun with extra ammo or striking cops with their vehicle. The video evidence shows beyond peradventure that Renee Good didn't strike the ICE agent — who isn't a cop — with her vehicle. EDIT: See the NY Times's frame-by-frame, time-synchronized compilation of the various videos [0], especially starting at about 3:42 in that video [1]. The agent wasn't hit by Good's vehicl…

The top-right video of your first link, at the 47-55 second time mark, literally shows her car hitting him.

That's not how it looks to me. Her vehicle seems to come close and might even touch the agent's leg — maybe (the narration says no). But "hitting him" doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to describe it, even granting that the video clip is in slow motion.

https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=xdxZIHQGODS9fB3e&t=323

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#192

Post by like_any_other »

dctoedt wrote: post #191
like_any_other wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top-right video of your first link, at the 47-55 second time mark, literally shows her car hitting him.

That's not how it looks to me. Her vehicle seems to come close and might even touch the agent's leg — maybe (the narration says no). But "hitting him" doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to describe it, even granting that the video clip is in slow motion. https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=xdxZIHQGODS9fB3e&t=323

The agent was leaning significantly forward, and suddenly acquired backwards momentum just when the car got close, despite his center of mass being in front of his feet. The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#193

Post by simianparrot »

dctoedt wrote: post #140
simianparrot wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

See my edited comment, with a link to the NY Times's frame-by-frame, time-synced compilation of various video angles. She didn't run over him or even hit him.

It only takes that to be a «nazi» sympathiser huh. And my comment flagged. You might need to go read up on what the nazis were like. I’m in Europe. We _really_ know what the nazis were like — they occupied my country. I live in a street named after resistance fighters who died fighting them. You’re extremely naive and disrespectful of the victims of the nazis.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#194

Post by dctoedt »

like_any_other wrote: post #192
dctoedt wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it looks to me. Her vehicle seems to come close and might even touch the agent's leg — maybe (the narration says no). But "hitting him" doesn't seem to be a reasonable way to describe it, even granting that the video clip is in slow motion. https://youtu.be/D9R9dAmws6M?si=xdxZIHQGODS9fB3e&t=323

The agent was leaning significantly forward, and suddenly acquired backwards momentum just when the car got close, despite his center of mass being in front of his feet. The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car.

> The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car.

He had a hand braced on the left-front fender and was leaning against it, with his feet maybe a yard away — apparently on icy pavement. The vehicle could well have pushed him as it moved; that's not the same as hitting him.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#195

Post by RickJWagner »

mindslight wrote: post #188
RickJWagner wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You keep focusing on these small slices of the issue where you can go A+B->C "yup looks good!". Meanwhile the larger context here is exactly what's important. Personally I'm basically ambivalent about deporting illegal immigrants. I am NOT ambivalent about the first amendment, the second amendment, abducting citizens/legal immigrants, due process and coercion, inhumane conditions, an administration that doesn't respe…

[flagged]

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#196

Post by like_any_other »

dctoedt wrote: post #194
like_any_other wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The agent was leaning significantly forward, and suddenly acquired backwards momentum just when the car got close, despite his center of mass being in front of his feet. The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car.

> The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car. He had a hand braced on the left-front fender and was leaning against it, with his feet maybe a yard away — apparently on icy pavement. The vehicle could well have pushed him as it moved; that's not the same as hitting him.

So she rapidly accelerated at him, and her car pushed him away, either by hitting his torso or his arm. And that in the 1-2 seconds the agent had to figure out her actions and intent, he arguably made the wrong call, is rephrased as:

"Speech is disallowed if someone with any authority feels like killing you"

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#197

Post by dctoedt »

like_any_other wrote: post #196
dctoedt wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way he could move like that was by getting hit by the car. He had a hand braced on the left-front fender and was leaning against it, with his feet maybe a yard away — apparently on icy pavement. The vehicle could well have pushed him as it moved; that's not the same as hitting him.

So she rapidly accelerated at him, and her car pushed him away, either by hitting his torso or his arm. And that in the 1-2 seconds the agent had to figure out her actions and intent, he arguably made the wrong call, is rephrased as: "Speech is disallowed if someone with any authority feels like killing you"

You’re seeing what you want to see.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#198

Post by mindslight »

RickJWagner wrote: post #195
mindslight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep focusing on these small slices of the issue where you can go A+B->C "yup looks good!". Meanwhile the larger context here is exactly what's important. Personally I'm basically ambivalent about deporting illegal immigrants. I am NOT ambivalent about the first amendment, the second amendment, abducting citizens/legal immigrants, due process and coercion, inhumane conditions, an administration that doesn't respe…

[flagged]

It sounds like you just don't like protests?

Of course it is going to seem like everyone is unprincipled when you assume that to start. It's taken us what, three comments here for you to admit to yourself that I'm coming from a principled place? Three comments of you writing off everything I am saying as if I am only saying it in bad faith to try and manipulate you, rather than as part of some consistent worldview that might help explain all of the opposition you see.

And then even after that, rather than accepting it and maybe seeing that some productive understanding could be had, you launched right back into firing off a bunch of wild partisan assertions - presumably hoping that I won't continue to walk the principled tightrope as perfectly, and you can go back to writing me off!

I'll be first in line to criticize how pathetically captured the Democratic party is. I'm not and never have been a Democrat - I just begrudgingly vote conservative now that open fascism is upon us. The Democrats thought they could phone it in in 2024, just like they were able to do in 2020. Their current strategy seems to be pointing out "this is really bad!", but never sticking with it to make a solid stand - just the occasional glimmer of inspired opposition, that is then left to sputter out. Lazily hoping that in 2026/2028 things can somehow go back to business as usual. I actually think the appalling lack of any sort of discussions about how we can possibly rebuild all of our societal institutions that Trump has burnt down is one of the most appalling things about our current situation.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#199

Post by KeepOnTopic »

RickJWagner wrote: post #195
mindslight wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep focusing on these small slices of the issue where you can go A+B->C "yup looks good!". Meanwhile the larger context here is exactly what's important. Personally I'm basically ambivalent about deporting illegal immigrants. I am NOT ambivalent about the first amendment, the second amendment, abducting citizens/legal immigrants, due process and coercion, inhumane conditions, an administration that doesn't respe…

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#200

Post by somenameforme »

AngryData wrote: post #189
somenameforme wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not feel you'd just be creating a utopia for criminals? You could take that data and create a program to show, amongst other things, minimum response time by area greatly facilitating crime. And then of course you'd also be essentially ending any undercover operations which are very important for breaking up criminal organizations. I'm fully on board with bad apples in the police being held accountable, but I'…

Any criminals with more than a single brain cell already know what cop response times are in their area. In the 60s-90s everybody had police scanners and cops talked over open radio about their locations and calls but crime still dropped massively in that time. We already live in the safest time in the last few hundred years atleast, if not of all human history, all these fears about rampant crime are unfounded. And…

Crime rates were substantially lower in the 50s, and prior, than they are today. The narrative about collapsing crime relies on starting sampling near the 60s at which point crime started exponentially skyrocketing, peaking at the 90s - where we hit the highest rates seen in modern history. The collapse of crime starting around that era correlates with an exponential rise in incarceration. In 1960 something like 400k Americans were imprisoned. Today it's around 2 million with the US having the highest incarceration rate in the entire world.

Similarly, the idea that crime is mostly by people you know is driven by another falsehood. That is only when the relationship between the victim and offender is known. The wide majority of crime has an offender that was either unknown to to the victim, or "relationship unknown." And the total number of cases of people killed by police who were not instigating physical resistance or aggression towards them is very near zero. There have been some really egregious cases, but they are very far and few between.

And yeah the 'cop personality' is pretty common, because it's cultivated in the training. They are going after the sort of people you probably don't even know exist, certainly not in the quantities that they do - especially with this image of reasonably people driven to desperation you've built up in your mind. These people will take any sign of hesitation or weakness as something to exploit. The 'cop personality' is a tool to help them do their job, even moreso than the tools on their belt.

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