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Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

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Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#191

Post by nilkn »

seec wrote: post #98
nilkn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my opinion: Apple doesn't need to solve AI. It's not core to their business in the same way that search engines aren't core to their business. What Apple does best lies at the combination of hardware, software, physical materials, and human-computer interface design. This is why they're spending so much more on mixed reality than AI, even knowing that a product like the Vision Pro today isn't going to be a big s…

Those Macs you are talking about are still very niche and mostly used by loyal customers that do basic/common things or very vocal fanboys who always find a way to shill for whatever Apple comes up with, no matter how flawed and lackluster the product is. Even if you want to run local AI, Macs are not really a good deal when you account for the price of soldered RAM and the limitations of AI tools on macOS. But as al…

I think you’re underestimating or not understanding why Macs have taken off so much for AI. It has nothing to do with fanboys shilling for Apple. You can get a MBP today with 128GB of unified memory or a Mac Studio with 512GB of unified memory. Then you get to run MacOS, which is vastly superior to Windows for AI productivity and far more accessible/convenient than Linux even today. There’s a reason so many AI apps are Mac native first (or exclusively). No other company offers so much memory and convenience in a consumer product for these purposes. These have become genuinely unique products with almost no competition, and by all accounts it seems Apple is just getting started in this direction.

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#192

Post by mrweasel »

MattRix wrote: post #184
mrweasel wrote: post #116

It's hard to imagine that just killing off Siri would hurt iPhone sales. It would be interesting to know how many people actually use, or even want Siri, or any type of voice assistant for that matter. The primary value of Siri is to check a box for investors, who are riding the AI wave. The same people how rode the voice assistant wave 15 years ago. There's a lot of AI features that makes sense for Apple to include…

This is an absurd take. Of course tons of people use Siri. It’s by far the fastest way to create alarms, reminders, and events. If Apple got rid of it, I would feel like a cave man, having to unlock my phone and navigate multiple screens just to do basic tasks. I’d immediately switch to Android.

Apple has spend, and will spend, billions of dollars developing Siri and you use it to create alarms, reminders and events (probably more). The question quickly becomes if that money had been better spend elsewhere, at the cost of losing a small number of customers.

Apple will remove successful phones models, because they did sell as well as expected, but they keep pumping money into software that still only does basic voice assistance? The problem for Apple is that they can't NOT invest in turning Siri into an AI product, because the stock would lose value the minute that announcement was made, regardless of how sound the financials of that decision might be.

I might be completely wrong and 80% of iPhone users use Siri, but I'd surprised if it's even 20%.

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#193

Post by nvarsj »

sockaddr wrote: post #80
owlbite wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have meetings to figure out how to interact with the other 9990 employees. Then try and make the skeleton app left behind by the team of transient engineers who left after 18 months before moving on to their next gig work, before throwing it out and starting again from scratch.

Exactly. What Meta accomplished could have been done by a team of less than 40 mediocre engineers. It’s really just not even worth analyzing the failure. I am in complete awe when I think about how bad the execution of this whole thing was. It doesn’t even feel real.

Big company syndrome has existed for a long time. It’s almost impossible to innovate or move fast with 8 levels of management and bloated codebases. That’s why startups exist.

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#194

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

nilkn wrote: post #26
dabinat wrote: post #14

I feel like the difference between Steve Jobs’ and Tim Cook’s leadership styles is that Cook is really good at optimizing existing processes, but does not have the vision to capitalize on what’s next. Apple got into the smartphone game at the right time with a lot of new ideas. But whatever the next big shift in technology is, they will be left behind. I don’t know if that is AI, but it’s clear that in AI they are al…

Just my opinion: Apple doesn't need to solve AI. It's not core to their business in the same way that search engines aren't core to their business. What Apple does best lies at the combination of hardware, software, physical materials, and human-computer interface design. This is why they're spending so much more on mixed reality than AI, even knowing that a product like the Vision Pro today isn't going to be a big s…

> Apple doesn't need to solve AI. It's not core to their business

Perhaps, but it depends on what business they are really in...

One classic business failure ("Marketing Myopia") is to define the business you are in as the product or service you sell, rather than the customer need that you fill.

It's certainly been a long time since Apple was in the "phone business", and Nokia is an example of what happened to a company that thought that was the business they were in.

For now, AI is largely being packaged in a way that is somewhat orthogonal to what a smartphone does - as a service (e.g. AI chat) that it can consume - but as AI becomes more pervasive that will change, and it seems that increasingly the mobile device in your pocket will become more like your do-it-all personal assistant rather than a pocket computer that you use to run different applications do to different things.

So, do Apple think they are in the smartphone business, with AI as someone else's business, a service that their phones can consume, or are they correctly anticipating where things are heading?

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#195

Post by teaneedz »

jannyfer wrote: post #68
nilkn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my opinion: Apple doesn't need to solve AI. It's not core to their business in the same way that search engines aren't core to their business. What Apple does best lies at the combination of hardware, software, physical materials, and human-computer interface design. This is why they're spending so much more on mixed reality than AI, even knowing that a product like the Vision Pro today isn't going to be a big s…

> What Apple does best lies at the combination of hardware, software, physical materials, and human-computer interface design. This was true maybe a decade ago, but not so now (under the watch of Tim Cook). You listed Mac hardware becoming popular in the age of AI as examples of "unexpected wins". Maybe that's true (I don't know if it is) - but Macs were only 8% of Apple's 2025 revenue. Apple has become an iPhone com…

Would you feel the same if in 2030, all the actions you describe, work most of the time but still produce questionable output requiring time to verify and fact check due to the probabilistic nature of the LLM engine? This is unsolvable with LLMs. I don't want an embedded or agentic AI but do give me the option to pick a model of my choice and accept the risks when I want to. I don't want tainted generated summaries, replies or code in certain critical areas.

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#196

Post by sajithdilshan »

mrweasel wrote: post #116

It's hard to imagine that just killing off Siri would hurt iPhone sales. It would be interesting to know how many people actually use, or even want Siri, or any type of voice assistant for that matter. The primary value of Siri is to check a box for investors, who are riding the AI wave. The same people how rode the voice assistant wave 15 years ago. There's a lot of AI features that makes sense for Apple to include…

I've been using an iPhone since 2017 and the only times I use Siri is to set an alarm or to play Music. Setting an alarm works like 90% of the time. Playing music on the other hand is a coin toss. Most of the time it fails because it plays the wrong song, cannot understand what I say or just refuse to play and ask me to unlock the phone because I'm not using apple music.

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#198

Post by jmull »

lxgr wrote: post #180
nandomrumber wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not mince words. If my device is “suggesting” a hotel or restaurant, or wherever, that’s advertising. Advertising is largely self-praise. And self praise is no recommendation. Or perhaps I misunderstood, and you were suggesting ignoring the recommendations of one’s travel companions.

If my phone ever starts not clearly separating "editorial content" and advertisements, it won't remain my phone for long.

There’s no “if” to it. LLM-driven features will be monetized. Investors/shareholders will insist.

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#199

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

dgxyz wrote: post #151
dabinat wrote: post #14

I feel like the difference between Steve Jobs’ and Tim Cook’s leadership styles is that Cook is really good at optimizing existing processes, but does not have the vision to capitalize on what’s next. Apple got into the smartphone game at the right time with a lot of new ideas. But whatever the next big shift in technology is, they will be left behind. I don’t know if that is AI, but it’s clear that in AI they are al…

This not about leadership. It's about product specification. There's no way it fits into their ecosystem without compromising it. Everyone else has compromised theirs and their customers. Apple do not want to do this. I suspect they will fail on AI but will win in the long run as competitors screw their customers over.

I suspect they'll win on AI by not investing $200Bn in CapEx and waiting 5 years until good enough models can be trained for Apple has BY FAR the best chips at this level. I don't see anything changing that in less than 5 years. That will be a pretty big advantage in the near future.

Re: Apple's latest attempt to launch the new Siri runs into snags

#200

Post by dgxyz »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #199
dgxyz wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This not about leadership. It's about product specification. There's no way it fits into their ecosystem without compromising it. Everyone else has compromised theirs and their customers. Apple do not want to do this. I suspect they will fail on AI but will win in the long run as competitors screw their customers over.

I suspect they'll win on AI by not investing $200Bn in CapEx and waiting 5 years until good enough models can be trained for Apple has BY FAR the best chips at this level. I don't see anything changing that in less than 5 years. That will be a pretty big advantage in the near future.

That's feasible but I think the whole thing will collapse in a heap when the obviously iffy funding structures fall apart due to a mix of lack of declinging investor interest and drunk assery by the US gov resulting in distrust and higher risk profiling of the associated investments.

At least Apple has other products that make money.

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