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Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

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Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#191

Post by mrinterweb »

endymi0n wrote: post #45
Tepix wrote: post #8

Huggingface Link: https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K2.5 1T parameters, 32b active parameters. License: MIT with the following modification: Our only modification part is that, if the Software (or any derivative works thereof) is used for any of your commercial products or services that have more than 100 million monthly active users, or more than 20 million US dollars (or equivalent in other currencies) in mont…

One. Trillion. Even on native int4 that’s… half a terabyte of vram?! Technical awe at this marvel aside that cracks the 50th percentile of HLE, the snarky part of me says there’s only half the danger in giving something away nobody can run at home anyway…

VRAM is the new moat, and controlling pricing and access to VRAM is part of it. There will be very few hobbyists who can run models of this size. I appreciate the spirit of making the weights open, but realistically, it is impractical for >99.999% of users to run locally.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#192

Post by mannanj »

igneo676 wrote: post #170
two_tasty wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how Tiananmen square is always brought up as some unique and tragic example of disinformation that could never occur in the west, as though western governments don't do the exact same thing with our worldview. Your veneer of cynicism scarcely hides the structure of naivety behind.

The difference is that, in the west, there's an acceptable counter narrative. I can tell you that Ruby Ridge and Waco never should've happened and were examples of government overreach and massacre of it's own citizens. Or You can't with Tiananmen square in China

I still see/hear cynicism with a hidden structure of naivety behind.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#193

Post by nsjdkdkdk »

two_tasty wrote: post #164
whizzter wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese state that maybe sees open collaboration as the way to nullify any US lead in the field, concurrently if the next "search-winner" is built upon their model the Chinese worldview that Taiwan belongs to China and Tiamen Square massacre never happened. Also their license says that if you have a big product you need to promote them, remember how Google "gave away" site searche widgets and that was perhaps one of…

I love how Tiananmen square is always brought up as some unique and tragic example of disinformation that could never occur in the west, as though western governments don't do the exact same thing with our worldview. Your veneer of cynicism scarcely hides the structure of naivety behind.

[flagged]

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#194

Post by simonw »

PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #182
simonw wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a video of a previous 1T K2 model running using MLX on a a pair of Mac Studios: https://twitter.com/awnihannun/status/1943723599971443134 - performance isn't terrible.

Is there a catch? I was not getting anything like this on a 70B model. EDIT: oh its a marketing account and the program never finished... who knows the validity.

I don't think Awni should be dismissed as a "marketing account" - they're an engineer at Apple who's been driving the MLX project for a couple of years now, they've earned a lot of respect from me.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#195

Post by dabockster »

johndough wrote: post #81
endymi0n wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One. Trillion. Even on native int4 that’s… half a terabyte of vram?! Technical awe at this marvel aside that cracks the 50th percentile of HLE, the snarky part of me says there’s only half the danger in giving something away nobody can run at home anyway…

The model absolutely can be run at home. There even is a big community around running large models locally: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/ The cheapest way is to stream it from a fast SSD, but it will be quite slow (one token every few seconds). The next step up is an old server with lots of RAM and many memory channels with maybe a GPU thrown in for faster prompt processing (low two digits tokens/second). At t…

You can run AI models on unified/shared memory specifically on Windows, not Linux (unfortunately). It uses the same memory sharing system that Microsoft originally had built for gaming when a game would run out of vram. If you:

- have an i5 or better or equivalent manufactured within the last 5-7 years

- have an nvidia consumer gaming GPU (RTX 3000 series or better) with at least 8 GB vram

- have at least 32 GB system ram (tested with DDR4 on my end)

- build llama-cpp yourself with every compiler optimization flag possible

- pair it with a MoE model compatible with your unified memory amount

- and configure MoE offload to the CPU to reduce memory pressure on the GPU

then you can honestly get to about 85-90% of cloud AI capability totally on-device, depending on what program you interface with the model.

And here's the shocking idea: those system specs can be met by an off the shelf gaming computer from, for example, Best Buy or Costco today and right now. You can literally buy a CyberPower or iBuyPower model, again for example, download the source, run the compilation, and have that level of AI inference available to you.

Now, the reason why it won't work on Linux is that the Linux kernel and Linux distros both leave that unified memory capability up to the GPU driver to implement. Which Nvidia hasn't done yet. You can code it somewhat into source code, but it's still super unstable and flaky from what I've read.

(In fact, that lack of unified memory tech on Linux is probably why everyone feels the need to build all these data centers everywhere.)

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#197

Post by storystarling »

zozbot234 wrote: post #163
storystarling wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1,500 tool calls per task sounds like a nightmare for unit economics though. I've been optimizing my own agent workflows and even a few dozen steps makes it hard to keep margins positive, so I'm not sure how this is viable for anyone not burning VC cash.

"tool call" is just a reference to any elementary interaction with the outside system. It's not calling third-party APIs or anything like that.

True, but that's still 1,500 inference cycles. Even without external API fees, the latency and compute burden seems huge. I don't see how the economics work there without significant subsidies.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#198

Post by [deleted] »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #129
johndough wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model absolutely can be run at home. There even is a big community around running large models locally: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/ The cheapest way is to stream it from a fast SSD, but it will be quite slow (one token every few seconds). The next step up is an old server with lots of RAM and many memory channels with maybe a GPU thrown in for faster prompt processing (low two digits tokens/second). At t…

Its often pointed out in the first sentence of a comment how a model can be run at home, then (maybe) towards the end of the comment it’s mentioned how it’s quantized. Back when 4k movies needed expensive hardware, no one was saying they could play 4k on a home system, then later mentioning they actually scaled down the resolution to make it possible. The degree of quality loss is not often characterized. Which makes…

[deleted]

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#199

Post by dabockster »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #169
FuckButtons wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my own usage, the former is almost always better than the latter. Because it’s less like a lobotomy and more like a hangover, though I have run some quantized models that seem still drunk. Any model that I can run in 128 gb in full precision is far inferior to the models that I can just barely get to run after reap + quantization for actually useful work. I also read a paper a while back about improvements to mo…

Interesting. If this were the case however, why would labs go through the trouble of distilling their smaller models rather than releasing quantized versions of the flagships?

Hanlon's razor.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Yes, I'm calling labs that don't distill smaller sized models stupid for not doing so.

Re: Kimi Released Kimi K2.5, Open-Source Visual SOTA-Agentic Model

#200

Post by dabockster »

esafak wrote: post #171
tempoponet wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for a coding agent, but a daily/weekly report on sensitive info? If it were 2016 and this technology existed but only in 1 t/s, every company would find a way to extract the most leverage out of it.

But it's 2026 and 'secure' (by executive standards) hosted options exist.

> 'secure' (by executive standards)

"Secure" in the sense that they can sue someone after the fact, instead of preventing data from leaking in the first place.

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