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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#191

Post by seanmcdirmid »

princevegeta89 wrote: post #44
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, they are just newer than the average ICE car. Parent wants an EV from the early 2000s or the 1990s.

Depends. They get a virtually continual supply of standby power that can last for months if left untouched. So from a technology standpoint that enables them to do many things - from being connected to the network, aware of their location on the map, recording camera footage and other remote capabilities. ICE cars do have some of these but the huge battery packs on EVs make these very feasible.

EVs use 12V for standby just like ICEs. I guess it could occasionally recharge it from the main battery, but needing a jump is a thing for EVs also in theory. I’ve also had issues with the 12V disabling remote systems because of abnormal discharge (well, BMW has an issue with their lock on weak away in that it keeps drawing power if the fob gets near even if the car is locked).

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#192

Post by mnot »

ares623 wrote: post #4
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon. I cannot and will not own a smart car any more I want to own a smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster.

We just bought a Cupra Tavascan; turns out VW Group Australia decided to forgo connected car features for EVs (or at least the ones we looked at).

Win.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#193

Post by chrisbrandow »

adrianN wrote: post #66
MBCook wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of ICE cars I get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing. I’m in a decently well off area too. Some putting off soot clouds, white smoke, nothing visible but clearly not doing complete combustion. Sometimes I wonder if half the cylinders are even working. I’ve heard one car like that is the equivalent of a surprisingly large number of modern ICE cars is in good shape. I love EVs. I’ve had…

Even modern cars pollute a lot (especially in winter) because you need a certain temperature for the cats to start working. On short city trips it happens frequently that you never reach proper operating temperatures.

I used to work for the Air Resources Board of California, and while there is a warm-up period, modern ice cars are so profoundly cleaner than cars even from the early 2000s. It’s pretty stunning.

Regardless, there’s nothing cleaner than no combustion, and I can’t wait until EV‘s have replaced them all

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#194

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rblatz wrote: post #180
MBCook wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think expense is basically the problem. Cost to replace the catalytic converter, cost for new exhaust pipes, cost to diagnose ignition timing problems. Whatever. If the car drives and you don’t have the money I can completely understand why someone wouldn’t get the problem fixed. Even if it means they’re burning a 1/3 of their fuel, that’s still less in the short term than the $1500 it may cost to fix it. It’s insa…

Some states handle this by requiring cars over a certain age to be emission checked before you can renew its registration. Failing cars have to be fixed and rechecked before you can get your tags.

I think they stop checking cars after a certain year. Like, if you are driving a 1980 Buick, they won’t make you scrap it because it’s emission tech is way out of date.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#195

Post by dyauspitr »

neogodless wrote: post #173
dyauspitr wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my firsthand experience, cold weather (big one) or hauling/towing significantly reduces that 400 mile range (sometimes by 50%+). Yes to comfortably get 400-500 miles per charge in the worst case scenario it needs to be atleast 2x.

If you're saying 100% only EVs with no use cases whatsoever for gasoline, then I suppose so. I don't think that's a smart goal, though. More like, more people should understand how EVs can easily work for them, and then try to shoehorn gas-powered vehicles into the few niche they need to be in. How often does someone need a 400 mile range again? Towing? When is the last time you towed something 400 miles? The most I…

It depends on your lifestyle. I haul my RV around sometimes two weekends a month. In my F-150 lightning I get around 100 miles between charges which is pretty dismal. I’m assuming you live in a city or in Europe. Where I live people regularly haul RVs, boats etc. I also frequently drive long distances and even in the best case scenario 2.5 hours of driving followed by 40 minutes of charging is a pain. These aren’t unusual driving patterns where I live.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#196

Post by stephenr »

sagarm wrote: post #99
everdrive wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the specs page the base model includes "Dual 12.3" widescreen displays" Why? What the hell is wrong with modern cars?

Backup cameras are an enormous safety improvement. Plus touchscreens are much cheaper than buttons and knobs.

Backup cameras are an enormous safety improvement.

You know that a backup camera can be added to practically any car right? My ~2002 Toyota has a Pioneer deck from around 2007 (I guess?) that supports reversing camera input. My wifes 2012 Toyota hybrid has a reversing camera using some POS cheap Chinese deck that's so shit it doesn't even support Bluetooth audio.

No part of reversing cameras are dependent on any of the "modern" trends in cars that are being discussed here.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#197

Post by davidw »

chupasaurus wrote: post #71
davidw wrote: post #46

Tires and brakes still contribute to a lot of particulate matter pollution even from EV's, but they're at least a step up. The best EV's are still eBikes though.

The study is about NOx levels which have nothing to do with tires or brakes.

Ok, but tire pollution is still a problem:

https://grist.org/transportation/electric-vehicles-are-a-cli...

https://caltrout.org/news/did-you-know-your-cars-tires-could...

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#198

Post by margalabargala »

socialcommenter wrote: post #181
margalabargala wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. I'm aware. The point I'm making is that EVs apply more braking than ICE vehicles do, due to the specifics of the implementation of regen braking that all manufacturers have chosen. > You can coast in EV as well Not without literally putting it in neutral. If you just take your foot off the accelerator, any modern EV will apply some amo…

I tend to agree with your overall point, but if we're talking about a 1-2 kW of "standby" regen, surely the rolling resistance of any kind of vehicle is in the same ballpark anyway (source: it takes multiple people to push a broken down car).

The bearings and whatnot that cause rolling resistance on an ordinary car also exist in EVs; this is 1-2kW on top of that, when the car is in Drive. Furthermore, it's common to use one pedal driving- it's generally much more than 1-2kW.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#199

Post by unglaublich »

princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

Even if the electricity source would burn similar fuel, just the fact that you don't pullote right in the middle of population centers makes a huge difference. In reality, it's not only that, but _also_ that they use cleaner methods of energy production.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#200

Post by margalabargala »

YZF wrote: post #165
margalabargala wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tires and their dust don't care whether you're braking by regen or friction. I'm aware. The point I'm making is that EVs apply more braking than ICE vehicles do, due to the specifics of the implementation of regen braking that all manufacturers have chosen. > You can coast in EV as well Not without literally putting it in neutral. If you just take your foot off the accelerator, any modern EV will apply some amo…

But ICE vehicles can be in engine breaking mode. You pretty much never "coast" (e.g. put the vehicle in neutral or hold the clutch in). I get what you're saying but it feels like it's way in the margin if an effect at all. Do you have some reference? People keep talking about tire wear but my model 3 tires (which are relatively high performance soft tires) aren't wearing any faster than the wear I used to get on my S…

The amount of engine braking applied by an automatic transmission ICE vehicle when you take your foot off the gas is an order of magnitude less than the regen braking applied when you take your foot off the accelerator on your Model 3.

Here's a reference for you: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/elect...

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