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Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

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Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Personally I don't understand the love that agriculture shows to the Republican party, but hey you get what you vote for. It seems like this whole year has been implementing policy after policy that screws over agriculture. USAid (big purchaser) gone. 40 billion sent to Argentina. Antagonize Canadians (Canadians !!) so they boycott American produce. Tarif China so they'll reciprocate on soy beans. Deport far…

The Republican party has a well polished message assigning blame to anyone else: gays, Muslims, illegal immigrants, trans people, feminists, government employees, etc etc etc. If only they can put those people in their places, prosperity will rain down on the proper Americans. As it did in the 1950s when those people didn't exist. It works. And it will keep working.

Yes. It's very effective, very dangerous, and it's not at all unique to America; the exact same approach results in high-minority vote shares across Europe.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Personally I don't understand the love that agriculture shows to the Republican party, but hey you get what you vote for. It seems like this whole year has been implementing policy after policy that screws over agriculture. USAid (big purchaser) gone. 40 billion sent to Argentina. Antagonize Canadians (Canadians !!) so they boycott American produce. Tarif China so they'll reciprocate on soy beans. Deport far…

I am not a US citizen, just an observer. What is the alternative when the Democrats appear just as much beholden to corporate finance, and position themselves as the party for city dwellers? I also disagree on the wealth redistribution. Government agencies are managers of risk. * Is there a risk to the country's food security if farmers go bust on mass? Then the Government needs to mitigate that risk. Fairly simple.…

You are correct, no replies but people don't like your message.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#193
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. This is not true. They voted, because they looked forward the harm to liberals and cities and lgbt and women who dont conform and non whites. They wanted other to be harmed and openly talked about it. They thought they will be harmed only a little, like the last time. Historically, republicans were not making policies good for them. By they promissed to be cruel and that was appealing.

And every single time there is discussion from liberals talking about rural voters, they have to mention that they know whats best for them, how they vote against their interests. I keep telling them this strategy doesn't work. The smugness is real and all it does is a) push people farther away and b) get everyone who thinks like you to give you internet karma, both worthless.

So what's the alternative strategy that gets them over to ""woke""?

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#194

This question may be naive, but why is the agricultural industry so subsidized? I understand the moral argument, but why, economically, does subsidizing farms result in a more efficient allocation of resources? I've heard that it's because farming as a business is full of unpredictability, but if that were the case, wouldn't there be a significant market for private insurance, and wouldn't the cost of that insurance…

The ability for a nation to feed itself is national security, period. Anyone who says otherwise is wishfully thinking or naive.

The quickest way for a government to collapse is famine.

IMO it is the role of the federal government to ensure that the US is not dependent on another country to feed its people. This is probably not popular here, but its a fact.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#195
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If voters didn't vote for your candidate, your candidate failed. The voters didn't fail. The candidate did. Voters aren't immune from failure. Voters fail when they stay home and don't bother to vote at all, when they remain ignorant/uneducated, when they vote for a party/team instead of the candidate, etc. It's tempting to let voters off the hook when candidates lie to their faces but ultimately it falls on voters…

> Voters aren't immune from failure. Hard disagree. Voters are never at fault. It is incumbent upon the candidate to give the voters something to vote for. > ... they stay home and don't bother to vote at all Because they had nothing to vote for. Candidate's fault. So what you've touched on is what's called "lesser evil voting", an idea that it is the voter's responsibility to engage in harm reduction. For too long t…

> Voters are never at fault. It is incumbent upon the candidate to give the voters something to vote for.

It's the voters job to vote for the person they want in the position. If you're prepared to ignore the reality of the deeply broken two party system that means writing in someone. The end result is the same as not voting, but at least it's a clearly deliberate act and can't be dismissed as or assumed to be laziness, apathy, or equal approval of either candidate.

> an idea that it is the voter's responsibility to engage in harm reduction.

If you refuse the responsibility for doing the least harmful or most beneficial thing for yourself and the country, who do you think is going to do that for you?

> For too long the Democratic Party has relied on this to do nothing by just being a gentler face on fascism.

Even if every election was strictly a choice between a fascist and a gentler fascist (and that's not remotely been the case) do you think that it doesn't make any difference which one wins? Do you think that there will no difference in the amount of death and suffering that results? Even if you were only given the choice between there being more or less death and suffering for yourself and others in your country do you really think the smartest move is to not bother to make any effort whatsoever to reduce that harm?

> Some might say you're rewarding that behavior by turning up to vote for them anyway,

I understand your frustration with the party, but you don't have to vote for them either. You can write in someone else. You can write "Fuck all of you" in capitol letters across the entire ballot. That at least would be a protest! If you don't even show up you're not saying anything except that you're fine with them doing whatever they want with you.

I mean, pardon the analogy, but if I were locked in a room with two rapists who wanted to fuck me in the ass, I like to think I'd at least make some effort to defend myself. If I couldn't or failed do that I'd hope that I'd at least voice my displeasure. I sure wouldn't silently bend over and present my asshole willingly to the meanest rapist in the room because I didn't want to "reward" the gentler one. I wouldn't just close my eyes and open up for whoever got there first. That's just giving up.

> Millions stayed home in 2024 because they were offered nothing. That's the only power voters had and they exercised it.

That wasn't an act of power, it was the opposite. The only power voters have is their vote, and everyone who stayed at home didn't even make an effort to use it. They gave up the only power they had leaving themselves powerless. If I were some evil fascist trying to rule over a population it's pretty much the best outcome I could hope for. It'd be the people giving me their permission to do anything I wanted because nobody even cares what I do. An actual vote for me in one election is a vote I could lose in the future. No vote at all would mean I'd already won.

> And I said at the time that the Democratic Party will learn nothing and change nothing as a result of a devastating loss in the easiest lay up of all time.

Which only shows how stupid the "do nothing" strategy is. Why should they change anything if no one cares about the outcome anyway? You can't make the democratic party be what you want them to be by letting the country get destroyed out of spite. Maybe you can't change them at all, but if you have any chance to do it, it'll be by voting for people in that party who most represents what you want it to be. It's either that or enough people have to vote outside of the party and we know the obstacles to that.

Democracy in the US has been a joke. It's a two party system where both options suck. There is a massive amount of voter suppression. There is open corruption and bribery by the rich and by corporations. Inaction isn't going to fix any of those problems. Voting actually could.

When Trump ran for president, nobody wanted him in power. The republicans didn't want him. They had their own preferred candidates. They didn't want him so much that they pretty much got everybody they could think of to run against him. The wealthy didn't want him either. They'd been making money hand over fist and they liked things the way they were. Trump threatened to mess with the system they'd built for themselves.

Everybody pretty much saw him as a clown. They weren't even wrong about that really, but in the end he got the votes. Maybe that wouldn't have happened if so many on the left didn't just stay home, but because it did we know that (at least back then anyway) voters in America actually had the power to change things. The ones who used that power were not the ones who stayed at home and pouted. The powerful establishment lost because people voted for something different. Something stupid, yes, but different and the result was (and has been) chaos. In my opinion Sanders should have been the left's trump. It was working too, although he was being actively undermined by the party. Today, it's candidates like Mamdani who I'm interested in watching. It doesn't matter if it has to start more locally than nationally, as long as the "fascists" getting votes get gentler and gentler.

There's a non-zero chance that America gave up the power to vote by electing a dictator. That's always been an option after all. Freedom means having enough rope to hang yourself with, but if the USA is lucky enough to still have the option to vote for who ends up in power I strongly suggest that people take it.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been curious about this myself, and I listened to some pro-Trump people who seem otherwise intelligent that tried to explain this effect. One common theme has been that farmers are by necessity highly independent. They can't rely on government services as much as city folk, because everything and everyone is potentially an hour's drive away. They don't see the effect of their taxes being spent, because their loc…

>and I listened to some pro-Trump people who seem otherwise intelligent that tried to explain this effect. If all you know is by listening to people recently on TV then you don't know farmers very well.

I try to get almost all of my information from long-form interviews. From what I've seen, few people (mostly professional politicians) can lie non-stop for several hours in a row in a consistent fashion.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#197
post #146
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always about price. Paying farmers to grow nothing ensures they stay open if we need them to grow something. When I farmed we had set aside land paid for by the government. When there were predicted shortages on food in the future, we were allowed to farm that ground. You don't want farmers going under. It just takes one bad year that way and we're all fucked. I've never lived through a proper famine, but Gr…

That’s what foreign aid is for: 1. Keep strategic production capacity alive. 2. Spread American soft power. 3. Get warm fuzzy feelings because you prevented millions of people from dying of starvation.

No, the US will not depend on foreign aid to [primarily] feed it's citizens. Never going to happen.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#198
post #32
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't eat private insurance. The consequences of not being able to produce enough calories is severe. It is much better to overproduce and everyone gets fed than producing just enough and a climate event erases out 20% of our calorie production.

Your buffer here is meat. Cattle are tremendously inefficient consumers of grain. Eat your burgers in the bountiful years, then slaughter 75% of the herd in a hardship year, eat well for six months, then spend the next three, four, five years eating more grains while the herds recover. Ethanol is another one. That's the sensible way to do it. Somehow I doubt that it's the way we do it... But maybe the variability is…

Americans would riot without burgers.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#199
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always about price. Paying farmers to grow nothing ensures they stay open if we need them to grow something. When I farmed we had set aside land paid for by the government. When there were predicted shortages on food in the future, we were allowed to farm that ground. You don't want farmers going under. It just takes one bad year that way and we're all fucked. I've never lived through a proper famine, but Gr…

This exactly. The fuss made about agricultural subsidies by non-farmers is misguided. Dropping subsidies doesn't make food cheaper, it makes it go away. Consumers are addicted to cheap food, so they pay taxes instead to make up the difference. Given a progressive tax system this actually is a very efficient approach to take. And overall, as a % of the total budget, these subsidies are insignificant. What is hurting f…

>What is hurting farmers are reduced markets

I know there is a rule about reading the article, but did you? This [trend] is nothing new, USAid has nothing to do with it other than short term changes.

Re: Significant US farm losses persist, despite federal assistance

#200
post #128
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would appear that to remain competitive they had massive consolidation, and with that an increase in animal density leading to major issues with water pollution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CraFarms So I guess yay deregulation, now with more capitalist privatized profits with socialized costs!

Downvoting without engaging in a discussion kind of directly violates both the spirit and rules around here. I've posted pretty solid evidence that dregulation, did not, in fact improve the agricultural situation for New Zealand. It absolutely made a subset of corporations and mega-farmers extremely rich at the expense of the natural resources the rest of the country shares. Would LOVE to hear the arguments about how…

Because it goes against the urban popular group think. "Blue States subsidizing Red States" "NZ did it, so US can to"

Provide any real or partial claims this isn't the whole story and it's difficult to change your mind on something that is fundamental to your beliefs. So downvote and move to the next post that validates your beliefs. Happens to everyone including me.

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