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Our approach to age prediction

openai.com

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Re: Our approach to age prediction

#191

Post by jacquesm »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #170
sigmar wrote: post #9

>behavioral and account-level signals, including how long an account has existed, typical times of day when someone is active, usage patterns over time, and a user’s stated age. Surely they're using "history of the user-inputted chat" as a signal and just choosing not to highlight that? Because that would make it so much easier to predict age.

I also saw a reddit post once which showed that even if you type something and don't press enter, even that's logged in chatgpt SO I am pretty sure that they might be using that information as well. I don't see any reason for them not to. So if you wrote something to chatgpt and then removed it/ didn't ask it? Yea they might be using that history too.

Same goes for the google search box and many others like it. Every keystroke gets sent.

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#192

Post by [deleted] »

terminalshort wrote: post #179
BatteryMountain wrote: post #172

Do not give your biometric & photos of ID's or videos of your face to these companies. Nether to third-parties. The potential failure modes here are very high risk and not worth it. Better to unsubscribe and let them know why.

What is the risk? Anyone who wants a picture of my face can already get one by googling my name and going to my linkedin profile.

[deleted]

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#193

Post by embedding-shape »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #181
BatteryMountain wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES. They all do. Everyone is dripping to get their hands on your biometric data and medical info.

I have worked in this space, and my experience was that usually age / identity verification is driven by regulatory or fraud requirements. Usually externally imposed. Product managers hate this, they want _minimum_ clicks for onboarding and to get value, any benefit or value that could be derived from the data is miniscule compared to the detrimental effect on signups or retention when this stuff is put in place. It'…

> Product managers hate this

Depends on what product they manage, at least if they're good at their job. A product manager for social media company know it's not just about "least clicks to X", but about a lot of other things along the way.

Surely the product managers at OpenAI are briefed on the potential upsides with having the concrete ID for all users.

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#195

Post by embedding-shape »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #170
sigmar wrote: post #9

>behavioral and account-level signals, including how long an account has existed, typical times of day when someone is active, usage patterns over time, and a user’s stated age. Surely they're using "history of the user-inputted chat" as a signal and just choosing not to highlight that? Because that would make it so much easier to predict age.

I also saw a reddit post once which showed that even if you type something and don't press enter, even that's logged in chatgpt SO I am pretty sure that they might be using that information as well. I don't see any reason for them not to. So if you wrote something to chatgpt and then removed it/ didn't ask it? Yea they might be using that history too.

Last time I checked, most invasive analytics platforms do this by default as soon as you integrate their libraries. Product managers are very hype-driven, and usually the reason stuff like that gets integrated in the first place.

I think it's more common than not for the large platforms, to try to log everything that is happening + log stuff that isn't even happening.

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#196

Post by bojan »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #172

Do not give your biometric & photos of ID's or videos of your face to these companies. Nether to third-parties. The potential failure modes here are very high risk and not worth it. Better to unsubscribe and let them know why.

Often you can't let them now. Recent experience of me canceling yet another American service due to the latest war mongering showed me that.

I did get offered a discount in the cancelation flow, but nowhere could I have given a custom reason of my cancelation. They'll never know.

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#197

Post by xyzzy123 »

jacquesm wrote: post #190
xyzzy123 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in this space, and my experience was that usually age / identity verification is driven by regulatory or fraud requirements. Usually externally imposed. Product managers hate this, they want _minimum_ clicks for onboarding and to get value, any benefit or value that could be derived from the data is miniscule compared to the detrimental effect on signups or retention when this stuff is put in place. It'…

There is no way that the likes of OpenAI can make a credible case for this. What fraud angle would there be? If they were a bank then I can see the point.

Regulatory risk around child safety. DSA article 28 and stuff like that. Age prediction is actually the "soft" version; i.e, try not to bother most users with verification, but do enough to reasonably claim you meet requirements. They also get to control the parameters around how sensitive it is in response to the political / regulatory environment.

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#198

Post by xyzzy123 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #193
xyzzy123 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in this space, and my experience was that usually age / identity verification is driven by regulatory or fraud requirements. Usually externally imposed. Product managers hate this, they want _minimum_ clicks for onboarding and to get value, any benefit or value that could be derived from the data is miniscule compared to the detrimental effect on signups or retention when this stuff is put in place. It'…

> Product managers hate this Depends on what product they manage, at least if they're good at their job. A product manager for social media company know it's not just about "least clicks to X", but about a lot of other things along the way. Surely the product managers at OpenAI are briefed on the potential upsides with having the concrete ID for all users.

Making someone produce an identity document or turn on their camera for a selfie absolutely tanks your funnel. It's dire.

The effect is strong enough that a service which doesn't require that will outcompete a service which does. Which leads to nobody doing it in competitive industries unless a regulator forces it for everybody.

Companies that must verify will resort to every possible dark pattern to try to get you over this massive "hump" in their funnel; making you do all the other signup before demanding the docs, promising you free stuff or credit on successful completion of signup, etc. There is a lot of alpha in being able to figure out ways to defer it, reduce the impact or make the process simpler.

There is usually a fair bit of ceremony and regulation of how verification data is used and audits around what happens to it are always a possibility. Sensible companies keep idv data segregated from product data.

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#199

Post by embedding-shape »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #198
embedding-shape wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Product managers hate this Depends on what product they manage, at least if they're good at their job. A product manager for social media company know it's not just about "least clicks to X", but about a lot of other things along the way. Surely the product managers at OpenAI are briefed on the potential upsides with having the concrete ID for all users.

Making someone produce an identity document or turn on their camera for a selfie absolutely tanks your funnel. It's dire. The effect is strong enough that a service which doesn't require that will outcompete a service which does. Which leads to nobody doing it in competitive industries unless a regulator forces it for everybody. Companies that must verify will resort to every possible dark pattern to try to get you o…

> Making someone produce an identity document or turn on their camera for a selfie absolutely tanks your funnel. It's dire.

Yes, but again, a good product manager wouldn't just eyeball the success percentage of a specific funnel and call it a day.

If your platform makes money by subtle including hints to what products to prefer, and forcing people to upload IDs as a part of the signup process, and you have the benefit of being the current market leader, then it might make sense for the company to actually make that sacrifice.

Re: Our approach to age prediction

#200

Post by csomar »

jayelem wrote: post #128
Jonovono wrote: post #98

For some reason ChatGPT has suddenly started thinking i'm a teen. Every answer it starts out "Since you are a teen I will..." and prompts me to upload an ID to show my age. I'm 35.

OpenAI demanded I prove my age in November 2025. I’m an educated 50 year old and had been paying for the service for over a year. When they insisted I prove my age I went through two layers of support but got nowhere. They insisted I go through their verification process. I refused and cancelled my subscription. This may be a losing battle but I’m not going to upload a photo to these services.

I don't get it. They're doing everything they can to create roadblocks to adoption. They don't accept prepaid cards, they restrict certain models behind extended verification processes and the list goes on. They got a lucky head-start and seem to have assumed they've built some impenetrable moat.
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