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AI is a business model stress test

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Re: AI is a business model stress test

#191

Post by chaos_emergent »

kachapopopow wrote: post #12

I know for a fact that all SOTA models have linux source code in them, intentionally or not which means that they should follow the GPL license terms and open-source part of the models which have created derivative works out of it. yes, this is indirectly hinting that during training the GPL tainted code touches every single floating point value in a model making it derivative work - even the tokenizer isn't immune t…

When you say “in” them, are you referring to their training data, or their model weights, or the infrastructure required to run them?

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#192

Post by jackhuman »

aleksandrm wrote: post #117
znnajdla wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used plain CSS for more than a decade and felt the benefits of Tailwind within 10 minutes of getting started. What fueled the growth of Tailwind is that it makes web development palpably easier.

What were the benefits that you felt instantly? I still don't feel anything and would prefer plain CSS over Tailwind any day.

I first took a css courses to get the basics then didn’t do much with it, then tailwind came out. I had used bootstrap, but always struggled to get stuff to look nice. I’m not doing web dev most of the time. So it was much easier to memorize tailwind utility classes than css. These days with ui frameworks like daisy, shadcn, tailwind is pretty easy for doing something simple for an IT dev tool but still customize it.

For creativity, I wished I had the time to get really good with css. It really seems to have grown a lot. Using sveltekit, its really easy to get component scoped css

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#193

Post by zephen »

aurareturn wrote: post #137
mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying the www consortium should be paying to keep Tailwind development and maintenance going? The css standard is not the same as a usable library of components.

Tailwind is open source. Anyone can contribute to it, including an LLM. If the founder of Tailwind quits on it, others who deem Tailwind valuable enough will continue to maintain it.

> others who deem Tailwind valuable enough will continue to maintain it.

We have seen several examples in the last couple of years where this is simply not true enough. There are multiple open source projects that do not receive enough TLC.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#194

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

techpression wrote: post #176
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this mindset. I solve problems on stackoverflow and github because I want those problems to stay solved. If the fixes are more convenient for people to access as weights in an LLM... who cares? I'd be all for forcing these companies to open source their models. I'm game to hear other proposals. But "just stop contributing to the commons" strikes me as a very negative result here. We desperately nee…

I find it very easy to understand, people don’t generally want to work for free to support billionaires, and they have few venues to act on that, this is one of them. There are no ”commons” in this scenario, there are a few frontier labs owning everything (taking it without attribution) and they have the capability to take it away, or increase prices to a point where it becomes a tool for the rich. Nobody is doing th…

Were these contributions not a radical act against zero-sum games in the first place? And now you're gonna let the zero-sum people win by restricting your own outputs to similarly zero-sum endeavors?

I don't wanna look a gift horse in the mouth here. I'm happy to have benefited from whatever contributions were originally forthcoming and I wouldn't begrudge anybody for no longer going above and beyond and instead reverting to normal behavior.

I just don't get it, it's like you're opposed to people building walls, but you see a particularly large wall which makes you mad, so your response is to go build a wall yourself.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#195

Post by martin_drapeau »

GrowingSideways wrote: post #187
drivebyhooting wrote: post #4

In my opinion LLMs are intellectual property theft. Just as if I started distributing copies of books. This substantially reduces the incentive for the creation of new IP. All written text, art work, etc needs to come imbued with a GPL style license: if you train your model on this, your weights and training code must be published.

Intellectual property was kind of a gimmick to begin with, though. Let's not pretend like copyright and patents made any sense to begin with

They exist to protect the creator/inventor and allows them to get an ROI on their invested time/effort. But honestly today, the abundance of content, especially that can be generated by LLM, completely breaks this. We're overwhelmed with choice. Content has been comodotized. People will need to come to grasp with that and find other ways to get an ROI.

The article does provide a hint: "Operate". One needs to get paid for what LLMs cannot do. A good example is Laravel. They built services like Forge, Cloud, Nightwatch around open source.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#196

Post by what »

hoppp wrote: post #58
mrcwinn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercialization may be a net good for open source, in that it helps sustain the project’s investment, but I don’t think that means that you’re somehow entitled to a commercial business just because you contributed something to the community. The moment Tailwind becomes a for-profit, commercial business, they have to duke it out just like anyone else. If the thing you sell is not defensible, it means you have a brit…

The difference is that they are reselling it directly. They charge for inference that outputs tailwind. It's fine to have a project that generates html-css as long as the users can find the docs for the dependencies, but when you take away the docs and stop giving real credit to the creators it starts feeling more like plagiarism and that is what's costing tailwind here.

Wouldn’t that mean any freelancer that uses tail wind is reselling it?

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#197

Post by raincole »

heliumtera wrote: post #21

Tailwind Labs relied on a weird monetization scheme. Revenue was proportional to the pain of using the framework. The sudden improvement in getting desired UI without relying on pre-built templates killed Tailwind Labs. There are many initiatives in a similar spot, improving your experience at using Next.js would hurt Vercel. Making GitHub actions runners more reliable, stable and economical would hurt Microsoft. Imp…

I think you live in a conspiracy world.

> Improving accessibility to compute power would hurt Amazon, Microsoft and Google.

Yeah, if they were not competing against each other.

> If suddenly CSS became pleasant to use, Tailwind would be in a rough spot. See the irony?

Honestly, I don't. If people suddenly adopted a heathier lifestyle, doctors, at least dentists, would be in a rough spot.

See the irony? Well, again I don't.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#198

Post by fpauser »

4nonverbal-alit wrote: post #183
azangru wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If suddenly CSS became pleasant to use, Tailwind would be in a rough spot. CSS is pleasant to use. I know I find it pleasant to use; and I know there are quite a few frontend developers who do too. I didn't pay much attention to tailwind, until suddenly I realized that it has spread like wildfire and now is everywhere. What drove that growth? Which groups were the first adopters of tailwind; how did they grow; when…

Tailwind is just bootstrap with marketing budget

nah

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#199

Post by hahahahhaah »

cluckindan wrote: post #180
hahahahhaah wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was too subtle but the issue is less understanding CSS and more collaborating in a team where someone decides to add a specific rule that fixes something applies on every page but makes no sense semantically. Then do that 100 times to create spaghetti. CSS rule anywhere can affect anything whereas tailwind is more local. You can also bricklay it along lines of components in React, so you know how X component render…

The irony is that Tailwind is not semantic at all.

Thats not irony so much as the reason. BYO semantics (using React most likely)

It is style assembler.

Re: AI is a business model stress test

#200

Post by GrowingSideways »

martin_drapeau wrote: post #195
GrowingSideways wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intellectual property was kind of a gimmick to begin with, though. Let's not pretend like copyright and patents made any sense to begin with

They exist to protect the creator/inventor and allows them to get an ROI on their invested time/effort. But honestly today, the abundance of content, especially that can be generated by LLM, completely breaks this. We're overwhelmed with choice. Content has been comodotized. People will need to come to grasp with that and find other ways to get an ROI. The article does provide a hint: "Operate". One needs to get paid…

> They exist to protect the creator/inventor and allows them to get an ROI on their invested time/effort.

Yes, this betrayed the entire concept of the us as a pro-human market.

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