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OLED, Not for Me

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Re: OLED, Not for Me

#191

Post by kllrnohj »

kalleboo wrote: post #107
kllrnohj wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RGB strip isn't really better, it's just what cleartype happens to understand. A lot of these OLED developments came from either TV or mobile, neither of which had legacy subpixel hinting to deal with. So the subpixel layouts were optimized for both manufacturing but also human perception. Humans do not perceive all colors equally, we are much more sensitive to green than blue for example. Since OLED is emissive, it…

> A lot of these OLED developments came from either TV or mobile I remember getting one of the early Samsung OLED PenTile displays, and despite the display having a higher resolution on-paper than the display on the LCD phone I replaced it with, the fuzzy fringey text made it far less readable in practice. There were other issues with that phone so I was happy to resell it and go back to my previous one.

Pentile typical omits subpixels to achieve the resolution, so yes if you have an LCD and an AMOLED with the exact same resolution and the AMOLED is pentile, it won't be as sharp because it has literally fewer subpixels. But that's rapidly outpaced by modern pentile AMOLEDs just having a pixel density that vastly exceeds nearly any LCD anymore (at least on mobile).

There's RGB subpixel AMOLEDs as well (such as on the Nintendo Switch OLED) even though they aren't necessarily RGB strip. As in, just because it's not RGB strip doesn't mean it's pentile. There are other arrangements. Those other arrangements being for example the ones complained about on current desktop OLED monitors like the one in the article. It's not pentile causing problems since it's not pentile at all.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#192

Post by clhodapp »

glitchc wrote: post #49
clhodapp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that there isn't any objective basis for the default scaling factor of a monitor being what we call 1x, I would argue that 2x scaling isn't any less native than 1x

The 2x scaling refers to the OS UI being set to 200%. That means each UI pixel is rendered by 2x2 physical pixels of the monitor. It has a very clear and objective definition. Did you mean something else?

I think it's definitely a clear definition of what you're doing, but I still take some issue with the framing of "UI pixels". I would argue that it's more like abstract "UI distance units."

Most UI's are designed to be "right-sized" for humans with a "distance unit" being about 1/96th of an inch (when the display is the designer-expected distance from the user). If you deviate too far from this, things end up being really big or really small and the display is harder to use. What you're effectively doing when you enable "2x scaling" is setting the "abstract distance unit" that gets applied to UIs to be the size of two display pixels, rather than one display pixel. Whether this is a good thing to do and is more or less "native", IMO, depends on the DPI of the display.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#193

Post by modeless »

boguscoder wrote: post #48
modeless wrote: post #21

I can't bring myself to get an OLED when I know it will get the taskbar and window decorations burned into it after a few years. One day if they invent one with truly zero burn-in I'll consider it.

It will probably be microLED rather than OLED in current form

I've been waiting for microLED for years but it doesn't seem to be getting any closer.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#194

Post by girvo »

kllrnohj wrote: post #190
girvo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article shows mac, it's not just ClearType... PenTile for example (as another commenter pointed out) was woeful with text, and made things look fuzzy. I'm not a fan of ClearType, but even on Linux OLED text rendering just isn't as good in my experience (at normal desktop monitor DPI) Perhaps its down to the algorithms most OSes use instead of just ClearType, but why hasn't it been solved by this point even outsid…

iPhones all use PenTile and nobody complains about fuzzy text on them. Early generations of pentile weren't that great, but modern ones look fantastic at basically everything. See also everyone considers the iPad Pro to have probably the best display available at any price point - and it's not an RGB strip, either.

> and it's not an RGB strip, either.

The PPI difference matters though (and I think why my Nokia N9's PenTile OLED looked rough). Desktop displays simply aren't at the same PPI/resolution density, which is why they're moving to this new technology.

If it didn't matter, I highly doubt they'd spend the huge money to develop it.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#195

Post by ebbi »

c0nsumer wrote: post #186
calebh wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought the 6K ProArt on launch, replacing an older 4k 27" Dell monitor. The new monitor is definitely an upgrade, but not as great as I was hoping. Like you said, the matte coating is by far the worst part of this monitor. I would say that it isn't bad enough to return the monitor, but it's definitely noticeable on white windows. I've definitely enjoyed having the extra screen real estate over the 27" monitor, and…

(Author here.) This is akin to how I've (technically?) stepped back from a 5K 27" to a 4K 32". Likely due to scaling and how far I sit from the screen (about 24" -- average I think) things look the same? At least, I don't notice that the 4K is any worse. Me being me, I can't help but think I should have a 5K or 6K or whatever, but the price is... high. So I figured I'd try a 4K 32" since the OLED was cheap and the re…

If you're keen on a weekend project, consider converting a 5k iMac to work as an external display. Glossy display, and bang for buck!

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#196

Post by ebbi »

Melonai wrote: post #162
quitit wrote: post #145

If your job involves detailed text review (such as coding) then splash out on a display with a pixel density of at least 250 PPI. The screen shown in this blog looks like it's ~140 PPI. Sure these screens are cheap, but they're best used for moving graphical content. In the demonstration image the text is just 9 pixels tall, while thatis legible, it is unacceptable for long term reading and is completely reliant on s…

Wait, I do my work on a 4K display, according to a calculator I have a PPI of 150, but I already find my 4K display completely overkill! Now, I spent an amount of my work life staring at a company-issued 27 inch 1080p display, and that was absolutely horrible, but with 4K, I'm not sure if I would even be able to see the improvement if I went to 6K or 8K even, which I always thought was mostly useless outside of gigan…

I went from a 27" 4k display to my 5k iMac I converted to work as an external display. You can definitely see the difference, especially with text. The 4k - although a HUGH improvement over 1080p monitors - will still have that fuzziness on fonts.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#197

Post by MIL-STD »

wronex wrote: post #88

According to Hardware Unboxed this problem goes away with the new generation displays. They are switching over to using a standard (LCD-like) striped pixel layout. https://youtu.be/c90FLTWQiSY Must say my first generation Samsung display looks amazing both for gaming and programming though. If it wasn’t for the annoying smart-tv stuff, and the mini connectors, it’s a perfect monitor.

If only the PG34WCDN was actually available.. Asus appears to be very tight-lipped about when it will even go on sale.

There are three upcoming monitors that take advantage of this new Samsung ultrawide 360Hz V-Stripe QD-OLED monitor- the Asus ROG Swift PG34WCDN, MSI 341CQR X36, and the Gigabyte MO34WQC36. They are all roughly on-par, with the exception of MSI, who cheaped out on their DisplayPort 1.2a specification (UHBR13.5 instead of UHBR20) requiring the use of DSC to drive the 3440x1440 resolution at the full native refresh rate of 360Hz.

I have decided it is time to update my aging Asus PG348 34" Ultrawide (which has been one of the best monitors I've ever owned, and served me very well) - and will be replacing it with the PG34WCDN as soon as it is available.

The actual Samsung panel being used by these three monitors: https://www.samsungdisplay.com/eng/media/news/detail/ssdsNew...

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#198

Post by c0nsumer »

ebbi wrote: post #195
c0nsumer wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Author here.) This is akin to how I've (technically?) stepped back from a 5K 27" to a 4K 32". Likely due to scaling and how far I sit from the screen (about 24" -- average I think) things look the same? At least, I don't notice that the 4K is any worse. Me being me, I can't help but think I should have a 5K or 6K or whatever, but the price is... high. So I figured I'd try a 4K 32" since the OLED was cheap and the re…

If you're keen on a weekend project, consider converting a 5k iMac to work as an external display. Glossy display, and bang for buck!

I actually had a 5K iMac that I sold when I got the Mac mini. As I was deciding on the display I looked at doing that, but I wasn't super keen on the unfinished look. And IIRC it was going to cost about $250 in parts at the time. I was able to get the ASUS for about $700 and sell the iMac for ~$300. So it was really only about $150 more to not DIY it and have a more finished final package.

It is a really neat looking project, I just determined it wasn't for me.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#199

Post by c0nsumer »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #153

I love how he blames OLED for this, but doesn't care to learn the actual cause: that isn't an RGB subpixel orientation. There are many OLEDs with correct subpixel orientation. He bought a factory defective monitor. LCDs like this exist, Samsung sold them as AMOLEDS called Pentile. They are hideous. Until subpixel is eradicated from existence, we shall continue to suffer this. The problem is such: 1) Windows exists. 2…

Do tell, how does one avoid this problem on macOS when needing to use colored fonts and lines? (That is, flipping to greyscale isn't an option.)

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#200

Post by seec »

While OLED definitely has this problem, his real issue is using a too small DPI monitor. It's not a real problem in OLED equiped smartphones with high DPI so it really shouldn't be a problem on monitors as well.

If you wan to point out that there is no large OLED display with a DPI > 200, yes that's the real issue at the moment but since 5K displays are becoming more common, I think it will be solved in relatively short time.

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