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ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

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Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#191

Post by Workaccount2 »

ben_w wrote: post #151
Workaccount2 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual realization, which usually comes years after the realization that there is no bottom, is that there is no top either. The battle along the spectrum of privatizing gains (lower healthcare premiums for a healthy lifestyle - high premiums for unhealthy lifestyle) vs socializing losses (paying $20/mo to get $1200/mo of care - paying $1200/mo for $0/mo of care) is constant and boundless in either direction.

But there is a bound in both directions? On end, it's "national insurance", functionally equivalent to fully-tax-funded healthcare like the NHS or the German system with several providers competing but regulated to near identical results, but moreso as the UK and Germany also has private care; on the other, it's the absence of insurance.

This is a macro problem larger than health insurance, and exists everywhere from employee bonuses, high school group project grades, handicap parking, gas prices, Everest summits, to gas prices.

Those might all seem wildly disconnected, but they all have systems of unfair allocation to compensate for unequal outcomes.

Generally national healthcare programs are entirely dependent on young healthy people paying into the system despite rarely needing it, and then hopefully enough dieing quick deaths or having multiple children to cover their costs. These rebalancing systems are artificial and humans are generally terrible at managing them.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#192

Post by lotsofpulp »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #182
monooso wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a US citizen, so a genuine question: do US health insurance companies have a track record of passing on such savings to consumers? That has not been my impression as an outside observer.

"passing on such savings to consumers" Absolutely not. They inflate prices by 200% and then give you 20% "savings" back. The whole idea of a health insurance company as publicly traded corporation is totally insane. They are designed to extract maximum profit from wherever they can get. The is no incentive to save money for patients. Any savings go to shareholders.

There are plenty of health insurers that are not publicly traded, and in fact are non profit, and yet they have the same premiums as the publicly traded ones. See Kaiser, Providence, Cambia, Regence, and the dozens of other BCBS affiliated plans.

If your claims were true, then the publicly traded businesses would have no customers.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#193

Post by lotsofpulp »

zdragnar wrote: post #74
monooso wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a US citizen, so a genuine question: do US health insurance companies have a track record of passing on such savings to consumers? That has not been my impression as an outside observer.

Ostensibly, the Affordable Care Act was supposed to reduce the average family's premiums by $2,500 a year. When that didn't happen, the story changed to that number being how much more premiums would have risen. Insurance premiums have only gone up as far as I can remember, though there's a ton of variables at play here. Inflation is an obvious one, plus continual introduction of more and more costly treatments- biol…

In 2010, it was already known the proportion of old to young was increasing, and the proportion of doctors was decreasing.

Prices were always going to increase.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#194

Post by FireBeyond »

DANmode wrote: post #176
FireBeyond wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aetna has their own scumminess. Want the convenience of 90 day refills? Have to use their mail order service. They'll refuse to authorize >30 day supplies of medication through any other pharmacy.

These comments (on UHC, Aetna) always strike me the same way as complaining about the lack of inflight meal, baggage fees, or lack of WiFi, on, say, Spirit Airlines. You looked at the list of insurers/jobs offering health insurance carriers, selected the cheapest, or second-cheapest option, and you’re surprised they’re harder to work with? How?

Oh yes, because the vast majority of employers in the US say "pick whatever healthcare plan you want from whatever carrier you want, we'll make it work" and not "You'll get what you're given and be glad for it".

Even in tech spaces with money to throw around, that just means that maybe your partner and dependent's premiums will be covered/negligible, or that your deductible will be low.

You're still going to be fucked by their policies, though.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#195

Post by glemion43 »

PunchTornado wrote: post #30
glemion43 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is not a helpful argument in this discussion. It's to blunt and feels more ignorant.

If you have nothing to say, but insult the other, better not to post.

I clearly say something.

I evaluate transparent his argument

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#196

Post by brianf0 »

DetectDefect wrote: post #98
brianf0 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean… you don’t need to look very hard. Smart phones? Google Maps? Is your life not enhanced by these products?

Not really. The provide convenience, sure, but fundamentally all technology creates dependence and limits freedom by influencing behavior in subtle ways, while disproportionately benefiting the technology owner/operator.

How does, say, refrigeration create dependence and limit freedom?

What are we “supposed” to be like?

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#197

Post by Workaccount2 »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #169
Workaccount2 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most cataclysmic thing that could happen to healthcare would be chronically healthy individuals creating their own health insurance.

Not really (in fact that doesn't even make sense), but in any case, I think you replied to the wrong post. Your reply doesn't seem to have anything to do with the post it replied to

You said enrolling in insurance was a choice. If everyone with a BMI under 22 who did at least an hour of cardio a week had their own health insurance club, they would be doing excellent with cheap premiums and great care, while everyone else drowned in medical debt as their plans collapsed.

The choice right now is all or nothing. There is no choice for healthy people to only share a plan with other healthy people. If there was, everyone else, especially the least healthy, would be totally screwed.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#198

Post by rafterydj »

bko wrote: post #183
Flatterer3544 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how would you know what they base their hiring upon? You would just get a generic automated response.. You would not be privy to their internal processes, and thusfar not be able to prove wrong doing. You would just have to hope for a new Snowden and that the found wrongdoings would actually be punished this time.

I don't get it, if you're medically unfit for a job, why would you want the job? For instance, if your job is to be on your feet all day and you can barely stand, then that job is not for you. I have never met employers that are so flush in opportunities of candidates that they just randomly choose to exclude certain people. And if it's insurance, there's a group rate. The difference only variable is what the employe…

I believe existing laws carve out exceptions for medical fitness for certain positions for this very reason. If I may, stepping back for a second: the reason privacy laws exist, is to protect people from bad behavior from employers, health insurance, etc.

If we circumvent those privacy laws, through user licenses, or new technology - we are removing the protections of normal citizens. Therefore, the bad behavior which we already decided as a society to ban can now be perpetrated again, with perhaps a fresh new word for it to dodge said old laws.

If I understand your comment, you are essentially wondering why those old laws existed in the first place. I would suggest racism or other systemic issues, and differences in insurance premiums, are more than enough to justify the existence of privacy laws. Take a normal office job as an example over a manual labor intensive job. No reason at all that health conditions should impact that. The idea of not being hired because I have a young child, or a health condition, that would raise the group rate from the insurer passing the cost to my employer (which would be in their best interest to do) is a terrible thought. And it happened before, and we banned that practice (or did our best to do so).

All this to say, I believe HIPAA helps people, and if ChatGPT is being used to partially or fully facilitate medical decision making, they should be bound under strict laws preventing the release of that data regardless of their existing user agreements.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#199

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #197
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really (in fact that doesn't even make sense), but in any case, I think you replied to the wrong post. Your reply doesn't seem to have anything to do with the post it replied to

You said enrolling in insurance was a choice. If everyone with a BMI under 22 who did at least an hour of cardio a week had their own health insurance club, they would be doing excellent with cheap premiums and great care, while everyone else drowned in medical debt as their plans collapsed. The choice right now is all or nothing. There is no choice for healthy people to only share a plan with other healthy people. I…

I am still having trouble understand how that pertains to the post to which it replied. Here are those 2 points again:

1. In the US, enrolling in health insurance is currently a choice (I'm can't tell whether your hypothesis about healthy people is agreeing or disagreeing with this point).

2. We don't want Billy to be screwed for life just because he was born to a suboptimal combination of parents.

Would you mind clarifying the connection here, please?

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#200

Post by Jarwain »

avalys wrote: post #141
simianwords wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are exaggerating. LLMs simply don’t hallucinate all that often, especially ChatGPT. I really hate comments such as yours because anyone who has used ChatGPT in these contexts would know that it is pretty accurate and safe. People also can generally be trusted to identify good from bad advice. They are smart like that. We should be encouraging thoughtful ChatGPT use instead of showing fake concern at each opportun…

All we can do is share anecdotes here, but I have found ChatGPT to be confidently incorrect about important details in nearly every question I ask about a complex topic. Legal questions, question about AWS services, products I want to buy, the history a specific field, so many things. It gives answers that do a really good job of simulating what a person who knows the topic would say. But details are wrong everywhere…

I don't think that LLM's do a significantly worse job than the average human professional. People get details wrong all the time, too.
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