Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Post-American Internet

pluralistic.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 479 posts

Re: The Post-American Internet

#191

Post by defrost »

RobotToaster wrote: post #176
defrost wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's certainly repeated by some here in Ireland. To be fair to Ireland and history they have a valid complaint going back centuries wrt outsiders taking their lands, language, governance, food and labour all while debating "the Irish Question" and reaching for eugenic "solutions".

You could make the same argument for Britain wrt the Normans.

Seems like a low bar given the entire span of Britain's history - Londinium was founded by Mediterraneans, Danelaw covered half the Big Island for a good period, the Anglo-Saxons were Germanic immigrants pushed back by the Norman wave . . .

The UK is immigrant wave after wave all the way back to when it was nothing but solid ice pressing down the entire landmass and practically all the islands.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#192

Post by tmcz26 »

exceptione wrote: post #90
nine_k wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open-source software was created by people who wanted to address their own needs, and we're lucky that we share the same needs. Commercial software companies and media companies were and are unhappy about that, because they lost control and profits. Regulated, constrained versions of Internet are being built by governments and some large corporations, to meet their needs. While EU's constraints may look benign (even…

It isn't that hard. A democracy can be maximally liberal, including the internet, up to the Tolerance Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance The people that govern Big Tech have said as much as that they don't believe in democracy, they show they don't believe in fair markets, and they are put to work to implement the threats of a crazy but powerful clique, attacking free and social democracies w…

This Tolerance Paradox is something I’ve been discussing lately with family and friends, but was having a hard time articulating. Thanks for the link.

I see tons of parallels with today’s world, on both sides of the spectrum (left/right, woke/unwoke etc).

Like, I do agree that most speech should be free and that dark humour and unpopular ideas and whatnot should be allowed even if you or a portion of the population don’t like it.

However I also think you can’t just say whatever you want and hide behind that free speech protection, because that opens the door to really nasty stuff that the human species has lived through.

But where’s the line?

That comedian arrested in the UK for a tweet[0], for instance. Do I agree? No. Do I think it was an intolerant thing to say from my POV? Yes. Do I think it is in fact inciting violence and deserves arrest? No.

On the other hand, you have people preaching white supremacy and talking about inferior races. We know where that led us.

So where’s the line? Same thing applies for these “regulated” surveillances. CSAM sounds like a good reason, but the same tools can be used to limit or monitor other speeches and behaviors. (Not to get into the debate of effectiveness, since bypassing is doable if you really want to).

I don’t have an answer, and I don’t think there is a clear line to be drawn.

[0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07p7v2nn8mo.amp

Re: The Post-American Internet

#193

Post by patcon »

great69 wrote: post #182
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that EU surveillance is greater than US surveillance is almost certainly mistaken. In fact, a huge reason that the EU is looking to move away from U.S. commercial providers is that they can’t guarantee they won’t be giving the U.S. govt information about EU users even if they setup completely independent EU based entities. The reason why it might appear that the EU is more heavy handed is because the EU is a…

I just assume it doesn’t matter where you live or who you are- anyone can have your data. It’s not admitting defeat. It’s just being safe and sane. To the point of the post though, please note that saying the internet is American (it’s not, it’s global) or publically giving up on the U.S. because of POTUS, three letter agencies, attitudes, etc. is not helping you win the many Americans over that may join you in some…

I don't mean this flippantly, but it's an odd framing you present. As in, when you yourself comment on the internet, do you think about winning Somalis to your cause?

I just mean... the point of marginalising reliance on USA and USA companies is that others don't need to care about winning American citizens to any cause they pursue, because American infrastructure has minimal [or no] power over their lives. As in, your response comes from the old world ppl are trying to leave behind, no?

Re: The Post-American Internet

#194

Post by petcat »

silvestrov wrote: post #83
flumpcakes wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I think most US people don't realise, is this would overnight start the slow but complete collapse of the US and it's economy. Europe can make alternatives to US tech, and with it's track record it will probably be more open with more legitimate options and less predatory monopolies. Once that is established with a home grown market of 450m people it will start competing with US in all the other markets. Let's n…

The easy part of a smartphone to create for EU is the part that is done in the US. The difficult part is the hardware. That is also why the iPhone is produced in Asia. Replacing TSMC is much more difficult than the software.

> iPhone is produced in Asia. Replacing TSMC

iPhone chips are largely produced in Arizona, and TSMC's 2nm fabs are scheduled to come online by 2028. 30% of TSMC's global production is schedule to be produced in America.

USA has been strategically re-homing TSMC to the USA mainland for a long time now.

Contrast with the EU which has done nothing to become self-reliant, and really just has no ideas. It is unfortunate.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#196

Post by u_sama »

great69 wrote: post #182
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that EU surveillance is greater than US surveillance is almost certainly mistaken. In fact, a huge reason that the EU is looking to move away from U.S. commercial providers is that they can’t guarantee they won’t be giving the U.S. govt information about EU users even if they setup completely independent EU based entities. The reason why it might appear that the EU is more heavy handed is because the EU is a…

I just assume it doesn’t matter where you live or who you are- anyone can have your data. It’s not admitting defeat. It’s just being safe and sane. To the point of the post though, please note that saying the internet is American (it’s not, it’s global) or publically giving up on the U.S. because of POTUS, three letter agencies, attitudes, etc. is not helping you win the many Americans over that may join you in some…

My POV is Americans are not an ally in any case, and all efforts must be made to increase self-reliance and disentanglement from the US. Both parties of the US disrregard european interests.

An argument can be made the Internet is actually Chinese because the atoms your bit relies on are mostly produced in China or Taiwan.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#198

Post by m3nat33 »

u_sama wrote: post #196
great69 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just assume it doesn’t matter where you live or who you are- anyone can have your data. It’s not admitting defeat. It’s just being safe and sane. To the point of the post though, please note that saying the internet is American (it’s not, it’s global) or publically giving up on the U.S. because of POTUS, three letter agencies, attitudes, etc. is not helping you win the many Americans over that may join you in some…

My POV is Americans are not an ally in any case, and all efforts must be made to increase self-reliance and disentanglement from the US. Both parties of the US disrregard european interests. An argument can be made the Internet is actually Chinese because the atoms your bit relies on are mostly produced in China or Taiwan.

> My POV is Americans are not an ally in any case

So you are an enemy of someone because of where they were born?

Re: The Post-American Internet

#199

Post by literallywho »

echelon_musk wrote: post #108
PeterStuer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long before that we had ECHELON. [PDF] https://historicalarchives.europarl.europa.eu/files/live/sit...

As a bit of trivia ECHELON was discussed in Grand Theft Auto III in 2001. 'Conspiracy Theorist Caller' phones in to Chatterbox FM to discuss and makes a call to free Kevin Mitnick: > Come on, do you honestly believe the NSA's echelon system isn't already reading your e-mails, and recording your phone conversations? It's all designed to frighten us so we don't complain about our rights being taken away in the name of…

ECHELON was quite popular in games back then. In the Splinter Cell games from the same era (2002), you're an operative of a US black ops organization called "Third Echelon" (and there's a second Echelon too, I guess).

Re: The Post-American Internet

#200

Post by flanked-evergl »

flumpcakes wrote: post #143
flanked-evergl wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very conservative and in principle really aligned with Republicans in the US, but this is rotten deal. The end result is in practice worse for everyone, because the American voters do not understand why they should be underwriting out security, and their security underwriting in practice is not very reliable or good from our point of view. It has not deterred Russia, it has not countered China, and I don't think…

I'm not sure how you get Europe to that position. Do you have any thoughts? Usually the more conservative people in Europe seem to be pro-Russia at the moment.

I think the conservative support for Russia in Europe is mostly reactionary, but whatever the cause may be, it's deeply misguided. Russia is an existential threat, and it has always been this. The West thought that if we treated it as if it was just another western country then it would become one, but that worked out really poorly for us.

As things stand now, Russia and Europe cannot coexist as equals, either we have to dominate Russia, or it will dominate us. I'm a national conservative, I like sovereignty and I like self-determination, and I like peace — and I also like that other nations have those things — and none of that can exist if Russia is in a dominant position. So it has to be subdued.

As to how, I don't have any real practical answers to that question. I think in part the problem is Europeans have become too nihilistic in a sense. In my experience most Europeans think that we have a duty to the rest of the world to become irrelevant, I can understand why, imperialism and colonialism was wrong, but we can be relevant and not be imperial or colonialist. Personally, I am betting and invested in a Christian revival, but I understand that it is probably not a very realistic thing in Europe as it stands today.

Post reply on HN