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Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

evanhahn.com

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Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#191
post #173

"Bad guys can't use it" is per definition incompatible with free software. For this author's definition of "bad guys" (megacorps), AGPL is probably the easiest poison pill. As with all poison pills, this will also make many (most?) "good" users unable to use it. This project is no curl or database engine, it seems to be a slightly easier way to set HTTP response headers. I bet most of the uses are transitive (someone…

> "Bad guys can't use it" is per definition incompatible with free software It's incompatible with 1 definition of free software. More and more developers are unhappy with this definition.

It is incompatible with all widely adopted definitions of Free software. If you restrict who can use your software, how, or for what purpose, it's fundamentally unfree.

The term that doesn't make any claims about whether a piece of software respects user freedoms is source-available, which these "everyone except the bad guys" licenses are commonly categorized as.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#192

"Bad guys can't use it" is per definition incompatible with free software. For this author's definition of "bad guys" (megacorps), AGPL is probably the easiest poison pill. As with all poison pills, this will also make many (most?) "good" users unable to use it. This project is no curl or database engine, it seems to be a slightly easier way to set HTTP response headers. I bet most of the uses are transitive (someone…

Since the author mentioned trying to find a general solution, not one just for his project - here's one that could work: Make a new standard license similar to the GPL, but one that includes machine-readable payment requirements, each consisting of: - a UUID - a minimum profit threshold - a license fee, either a fixed amount or some well-defined formula (you'd probably want an inflation adjustment system) - a recipie…

That's a nice idea, but it isn't really "open source" or "free software" if you implement that.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#193
Any such license is basically impossible to work with. It amounts to "I reserve the right to sue anyone who uses this software in the future for effectively random reasons". Because I could go on about the lack of a universally agreed-upon "good" or "evil" and the fact that what you call evil is people who think they are being good (the number of people who outright identify themselves as evil is a rounding error), but there's an even bigger problem, which is that who you think is evil today may change over time. How is anyone supposed to keep up with that? If you put a license like this on your software and you decide eightteen months from now that actually $POLITICAL_STANCE, which you previously thought was evil, has a point, and then you-four-years-from-now comes around to the idea that what they thought was good when they wrote the license is actually quite evil, what is any user of your code supposed to do with that?

In general, $YOUR opinions are too flighty to be basing licensing decisions on.

There's a generally established exception for military use, which works anyhow because even if you are hypothetically perfectly morally fine with military use you may not want to permit them to use it on the grounds you haven't tested it enough. See also the perfectly well-established "not to be used on medical devices" exemption. But if you want to conditionalize your license on, say, "whether or not you're willing to sign this petition about $POLITICAL_TOPIC", that's not something anyone can build on. It'll be a terminal license in the code tree.

If this means you don't want to contribute to open source because you are unwilling to accept this... by all means! If you don't like a contract, don't sign it. Nobody's forcing you to write open source software for free. But there isn't a practical "well, what if only people I agree with are allowed to use it" option, because then even the people you agree with today really can't base any significant decisions on that sort of foundation.

(And, in general, anyone who lives, say, 25 years, and has absolutely no changes of political opinion in that time period... yeah... that's probably a bad sign. I don't hate 25-year-ago-me or anything, but I've got a lot of disagreements with him, and I don't expect 25-year-from-now-me to completely agree with me today either. Certainly not enough to write anything into a license agreement.)

Finally, as another practical manner, this license is also signing up to someday appear in some court of law to litigate the matter of whether or not some person or other does or does not agree with you on some political matter, in a situation where it will be a judge deciding that and not you, and wow am I just not being paid enough for my free contributions to open source to go through that under any circumstances.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#195

Big fan of this opinion on the matter https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/why-i-use-the-gpl-and-not-cuc...

Terrible article. The whole style is annoying but let me just quote two things.

> The funniest thing is when Cuck Licensers complain that people are abiding by their licenses. They will complain that people took their code and made money off of it. They will complain when they don't get some social credit they feel like they deserve when their code is used in a project. They will complain if people fork their project and it becomes more popular than the original. They will complain when some tech giant takes their code and makes spyware out of it.

None of these things are prevented by making your code GPL. GPL only means that if they distribute the software, they also have to distribute the source. There is no requirement to provide “social capital”, to not make money or to not put spyware in it.

> With Cuck Licenses, you get the worst of two worlds: You get no credit for your work, […]

BSD-style licenses require attribution when distributing the software. So if Intel distributed MINIX, they had to put the license and Andrew Tanenbaum’s copyright notice somewhere in their documentation. That’s why we get all those screenshots of curl being in things.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPL does not prohibit evil uses. You can put GPLed crap in weapons systems that are used for striking civilian targets.

If a weapon includes AGPLed code, do targets of the weapon have a right to view the source code?

No, they merely feel the effects of the code, but they do not use it.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#198
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the author mentioned trying to find a general solution, not one just for his project - here's one that could work: Make a new standard license similar to the GPL, but one that includes machine-readable payment requirements, each consisting of: - a UUID - a minimum profit threshold - a license fee, either a fixed amount or some well-defined formula (you'd probably want an inflation adjustment system) - a recipie…

That's a nice idea, but it isn't really "open source" or "free software" if you implement that.

It isn't "free software" by the FSF definition or open source by OSI, but for practical purposes, it would work exactly the same for 99% of people.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we prevent Nazis from using our software? Releasing it in the year 2025 is a pretty good guarantee of this, unless someone develops a time machine.

Errrr there is currently a worldwide upswing in nationalism. Oh that’s fine because it’s not Nazis but Neo-Nazis - the new kind. Thankfully history doesn’t repeat itself. Sorry for getting snarky.

Is there a differentiation between nationalism and patriotism?

I happen to think that the Founders had a (generally) better set of ideas in 1787, and that those ideas are being replaced by ersatz slogans.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is, that’s literally contract law. You’re agreeing a contract to licence them access with specific terms. The reason they invented the standard licences is to avoid this cost and effort. Do you really want to write a 200 page legal contract for every user for software you’re giving away for free?

Is that the implication? I thought that the legal contract you mentioned was a standard document, basically the same for everyone that was licensed. But I am not s lawyer, and I don't pretend to be one. It would be neat to have this licese codified (Like we have MIT, GPL, etc), with the proper incentives to "ask for open source access, if I lile you, you might get it". And, of course, a "contract" that gave licensees…

One of the open source benefits is the ability to distribute the software to others under the open source license. So if you gave your friends an open source license (which you can do) they could then license the software to anyone else they want to under the same license (As that is part of the definition of open source). If you want to restrict them from doing this, you could make your own custom license that restricts this (but it would not be open source).
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