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Datacenters in space aren't going to work

taranis.ie

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Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#191

Post by bouncycastle »

wat10000 wrote: post #178
mbesto wrote: post #120

Datacenters in space is about circumventing nation states masked as ambitions to generate more power. Follow the rationale: 1. Nation states ultimately control three key infrastructure pieces required to run data centers (a) land (protected by sovereign armed forces) (b) internet / internet infra (c) electricity. If crypto ever became a legitimate threat, nation states could simply seize any one of or all these three…

Putting data centers on ships in international waters would be just as effective at evading government control (i.e. not very) while being orders of magnitude easier and cheaper to build and operate.

Recently the USA blew out some some boats in international waters and came back to finish off the survivors, despite thin evidence and no due process, while maintaining that it was legal. If those data centers on ships ever become declared as a 'threat to national security' then they might get the same treatment.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#192

Post by nick238 »

foobarian wrote: post #153
skywhopper wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the cooling cost wouldn’t be smaller. There’s no good way to eliminate the waste heat into space. It’s actually far far harder to radiate the waste heat into space directly than it would be to get rid of it on Earth.

I don't know about that. Look at where the power goes in a typical data center, for a 10MW DC you might spend 2MW just to blow air around. A radiating cooler in space would almost eliminate that. The problem is the initial investment is probably impractical.

>99.999% of the power put into compute turns into heat, so you're going to need to reject 8 MW of power into space with pure radiation. The ISS EATCS radiators reject 0.07 MW of power in 85 sq. m, so you're talking about 9700 sq. m of radiators, or bigger than a football field/pitch.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#193

Post by baobrien »

wat10000 wrote: post #179
MadnessASAP wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically radiation cooling is 100% efficient. And remarkably effective, you can cool an inert object to the temperature of the CMBR (4K) without doing anything at all. However it is rather slow and works best if there's no nearby planets or stars. Fun fact though, make your radiator hotter and you can dump just as much if not more energy then you would typically via convective cooling. At 1400C (just below the mel…

How much power would a square meter at 1400C shed from convection?

Not much in space; There's almost no matter to convect!

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#194

Post by nish__ »

GMoromisato wrote: post #187
morshu9001 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what price per MW of load?

The Starlink constellation cost $10 billion. That’s comparable to a small data center (maybe 50,000 gpus). If launch costs keep dropping and environmental costs keep rising, space based data centers will make sense.

What a ridiculous waste of money.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#195

Post by gpm »

bouncycastle wrote: post #191
wat10000 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting data centers on ships in international waters would be just as effective at evading government control (i.e. not very) while being orders of magnitude easier and cheaper to build and operate.

Recently the USA blew out some some boats in international waters and came back to finish off the survivors, despite thin evidence and no due process, while maintaining that it was legal. If those data centers on ships ever become declared as a 'threat to national security' then they might get the same treatment.

This would be equally true in space.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#196

Post by collinmcnulty »

bouncycastle wrote: post #191
wat10000 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting data centers on ships in international waters would be just as effective at evading government control (i.e. not very) while being orders of magnitude easier and cheaper to build and operate.

Recently the USA blew out some some boats in international waters and came back to finish off the survivors, despite thin evidence and no due process, while maintaining that it was legal. If those data centers on ships ever become declared as a 'threat to national security' then they might get the same treatment.

I think GP's point is that an advanced nation-state could just as easily shoot down an orbiting data center as an oceanic data center and that "international space" offers an equally flimsy defense as "international waters" but a much larger price.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#197

Post by collinmcnulty »

To say the quiet part out loud, I don't think any serious companies have any intention to build a data center in space. There is no benefit in actually trying this. There is however, benefit in saying you'll do it to advance a narrative and distract from the problems terrestrial data centers are facing to an audience that mostly doesn't understand how heat transfer in a vacuum works.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#198

Post by cwal37 »

echelon wrote: post #182
wat10000 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting data centers on ships in international waters would be just as effective at evading government control (i.e. not very) while being orders of magnitude easier and cheaper to build and operate.

They've always been able to do this. Microsoft was talking about submarine data centers powered by tidal forces in the early 2000s. There have been talks of data centers on Sealand-like nation states. Geothermal ... Exotic data center builds will always be hyped. Always be within the realm of feasibility when cost is no object, but probably outside of practicality or need. Next it'll be fusion-powered data centers.

Commonwealth Fusion Systems called dibs on next last year by saying they’re gonna have a Dominion (Virginia) commercial site up and running in the early 2030s.

https://cfs.energy/news-and-media/commonwealth-fusion-system...

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#200

Post by dawnerd »

CrossVR wrote: post #199

Datacenters in space would make 0 sense because the only way to lose heat is through radiation, which makes for terrible cooling. If you want to avoid national laws and have great cooling, then submerse your datacenter in the ocean instead.

And they've already at least tried datacenters in the ocean.

https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/sustainability/pr...

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