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When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

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Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad all the competent politicians were dead set against preventing the "free market" from hollowing out American manufacturing.

I understand your sentiment, but I feel like your position is somewhat simplistic, and the actual situation is more complicated. First, overall, the US has increased manufacturing output over the last couple decades. 2019 was the highest year ever, covid interupted a bit, but levels are back there again. However the number of people involved has dropped a lot. US manufacturing prefers automation and prefers to manufa…

> First, overall, the US has increased manufacturing output over the last couple decades. 2019 was the highest year ever, covid interupted a bit, but levels are back there again.

No, supposed quality adjustments hide lower production volumes: https://www.palladiummag.com/2025/10/03/how-gdp-hides-indust...

> Motor vehicles, bodies and trailers, and parts: actual light vehicles produced down 11%, real gross output of vehicles up 39%, real value-added up 125%. Inputs as a percent of gross output rose from 74% to 77%.

> Steel mills & manufacturing from purchased steel: in raw tonnage, steel shipped is down 18%, real gross output is up 5%, real value-added is up 125%. Inputs as a percentage of gross output rose from 73% to 74%.

> If the quality adjustment is 32%, the value-added increase becomes 652%!

> Another “quirk” of real value-added is that inflation adjustments and quality adjustments get applied retroactively, which creates wild inflections from small changes. In simplified terms, let’s say that, in 1997, car sales were $100 billion, and were still $100 billion twenty years later in 2017, with no changes due to inflation or input costs. Input costs in both years were $75 billion, meaning $25 billion in value-added in both years. The only thing that changed, let’s say, was that the “quality” of cars got 10% higher thanks to software innovations like Apple CarPlay and design improvements like crumple zones for safety—neither of which add to recurring production input costs. So, let’s say, our economists would adjust the 2017 figure to be $110 billion in “real” terms and show a small 10% increase, right?

>

> Instead, the way it works is that a recent “base year” is taken, in this case 2017, and the base year is never adjusted. So rather than adjusting from $100 billion to $110 billion, the “real” output of 1997 is retroactively adjusted to be lower, in this case $91 billion, to get the same 10% increase. But then, our value-added in 1997 has fallen to $16 billion, and the increase in “real value-added manufacturing” has jumped from 10% to around 50%! We have created a 50% increase in car manufacturing not by actually producing 50% more cars or “objectively” making cars 50% better, but just by playing around with statistics and definitions.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#192
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of that in the US got spun up with Nixon, Reagan brought a lot of it to the mainstream though. Both of them hated unions with a passion that is for sure.

Unions are the best of all the bad solutions we’ve come up with so far for labor to compete with capital. The worst of course is collectivism through government, though that’s being tried again…

Why would Capital want competition?

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#193

Somewhat clickbait. The $684 duty charge was in error, and they got it reduced to the correct amount (an order of magnitude lower)

Not a clickbait, because it was quite difficult to get it reduced, so it is good to know how to do it.

Moreover, the money have not been returned yet, that could take a long time and for many people losing access to such an amount would be very inconvenient, even if they knew that the money would be returned, eventually.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need manufacturing in the US. The service economy can't survive long term; you have to make things. Tariffs are not fun, but they are an important part of making that happen. But, tariffs on used cameras or vintage electronics does not help bring manufacturing back. Let's just bring back the de minimis exemption for things like this. More industry targeted tariffs, fewer blanket tariffs.

No sure why you are being down-voted. Your argument is coherent and correct. Targeted tariffs on specific goods leads to the development of local production of that good. Lots and lots of countries have these in place. Blanket tariffs are, of course, useless. The US doesn't have the climate to grown coffee, so tarifing Brazil serves no purpose other than taxing coffee consumption. A surgeon uses a scalpel, not an axe…

By themselves even targeted tariffs don't work. Argentina did not become a mobile phone manufacturing hub.

https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/argentina/milei-is-scrapping...

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#195
post #139
post #74

And herein lies the rub: It's been like this in many countries for the longest time. In Thailand, say, you receive an order from abroad, the post office sends you a slip and you have to pay the assessed duties to receive the package. It often ends up feeing arbitrary; some stuff comes through, others get assessed at a higher value and you have to show receipts and convince them that no, this isn't that expensive of a…

>America had no idea how good they had it, in the before times. The downside is the insane consumption associated with that. Americans are responsible for an insane amount of pollution, far more per capita than any other people in the history of the world, much of which is tied to how easy/cheap it is to order shit we don't need. So, good if ya wanna buy cheap pollution, pretty bad if ya care about the next generatio…

America isn’t #1 in pollution per capita, that’s largely a function of per capita income and America is a long way from #1 on that metric.

For example, we where ranked 16th in terms of CO2 per capita in 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... We are just #3 by population and far richer per capita than the other 2.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#196
post #195
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>America had no idea how good they had it, in the before times. The downside is the insane consumption associated with that. Americans are responsible for an insane amount of pollution, far more per capita than any other people in the history of the world, much of which is tied to how easy/cheap it is to order shit we don't need. So, good if ya wanna buy cheap pollution, pretty bad if ya care about the next generatio…

America isn’t #1 in pollution per capita, that’s largely a function of per capita income and America is a long way from #1 on that metric. For example, we where ranked 16th in terms of CO2 per capita in 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... We are just #3 by population and far richer per capita than the other 2.

> For example, we where ranked 16th in terms of CO2 per capita in 2023

For home soil central north american CO2 production, sure.

Things change if such rankings were to account for the CO2 production as a result of satisifying US consumption habits .. the "benefit" of having off shored industry to China is the final goods come to the USofA while the emissions and waste of industry occur elsewhere.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#197
post #195
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>America had no idea how good they had it, in the before times. The downside is the insane consumption associated with that. Americans are responsible for an insane amount of pollution, far more per capita than any other people in the history of the world, much of which is tied to how easy/cheap it is to order shit we don't need. So, good if ya wanna buy cheap pollution, pretty bad if ya care about the next generatio…

America isn’t #1 in pollution per capita, that’s largely a function of per capita income and America is a long way from #1 on that metric. For example, we where ranked 16th in terms of CO2 per capita in 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... We are just #3 by population and far richer per capita than the other 2.

You may want to take another look at that list. Proudly declaring you’re only the 16th worst per-capita (already very high!) when ahead of you are tiny places like Pulau, New Caledonia, Gibraltar and Curacao is really quite funny.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your sentiment, but I feel like your position is somewhat simplistic, and the actual situation is more complicated. First, overall, the US has increased manufacturing output over the last couple decades. 2019 was the highest year ever, covid interupted a bit, but levels are back there again. However the number of people involved has dropped a lot. US manufacturing prefers automation and prefers to manufa…

> However the number of people involved has dropped a lot. US manufacturing prefers automation and prefers to manufacture things which are high-volume, low labor. That's fine and indeed about the only way it even can be done in a country with higher wages. The question is, why can't we do more of that? Basic simple components like capacitors should be possible to automate, so what's preventing it? Why don't we have p…

Subsidies are a definite tool, and subsidies are existent in many industries. Lots of farm products for example are subsidized.

Of course they encounter their own political hurdles. Think Solar, Electric Cars, CHIPS act etc. But they become political footballs, even to the detriment of local interests. (Witness Florida reps voting to repeal CHIPS even though Florida got a lot of CHIPS money.)

So yes, companies want consistency in the supply chain, and current US politics doesn't offer that.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#199

As an European, I'm kinda pissed we don't retaliate the duties. I'd rather take a financial hit than act so weak and passive. I swear between chat control, selling out EU's privacy to US tech companies (you can check how many times Palantir & others met commission members, it's public), the insanity of the ICE ban and this tariffs passivity I'm very unhappy. Also, it's too convenient to only focus on material goods w…

Leaving aside the other (valid) items in your list, reciprocal tarifs really aren't helpful. Firstly, they're unnecessary. Just do what Canadians are doing. Stop buying US goods. Stop going to the US on holiday. Shop keepers get the hint real quick. Secondly, they just make goods more expensive for you. They gave no impact on American producers. So it may feel like the EU is doing nothing. But really, there's nothing…

> Leaving aside the other (valid) items in your list, reciprocal tarifs really aren't helpful.

You have completely missed my point: I don't care about them being helpful or not. It's not about the financial but political aspect.

Re: When UPS charged me a $684 tariff on $355 of vintage computer parts

#200
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since ducks are migratory shouldn’t duck products be tariffed?

I have a bigger issue: a bunch of undocumented CANADIAN geese in MY BACKYARD! I want ICE to send them BACK to Snow Mexico!

Canadians get annoyed when you call them that. I like to increase the annoyance by calling them Canadia Gooses.
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