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Study finds memory decline surge in young people

onepercentrule.substack.com

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Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#191

Post by gsinclair »

autoexec wrote: post #175
dpark wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can surely get pizza delivered, though certainly I’ve had pizza delivery people text me because they couldn’t find my house. So having a cell phone is valuable even then. Part of my problem with the claims that cell phones are the problem is that the answer often seems to be a landline that you’re still available on. If you replace one phone with another, what’s the difference? This isn’t a sarcastic question, ei…

> though certainly I’ve had pizza delivery people text me because they couldn’t find my house. When you have a landline that still happens, but they call you instead of texting. It works great! > the answer often seems to be a landline that you’re still available on. If you replace one phone with another, what’s the difference? There are huge differences. Most of the problems with smart phones aren't "You can call pe…

So let’s agree that removing smartphones from one’s life is beneficial.

Why not a dumb (mobile) phone, then? Why the passion for a landline? You can still exercise full control over when/where you answer it, but you gain a lot of useful convenience as well.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#192

Post by sigmoid10 »

watwut wrote: post #174
sigmoid10 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thesis contradicts the chart though. Why would older people be much less affected and the generation 70+ even show a negative trend if these people were far more likely to experience a more severe disease progression? You would expect them to be hit at least as hard (if not harder) as young people from those long term memory effects. The trend for the youngest age group also starts well before 2019.

First when you have combination of factors, this can happen. Second, old people were more likely to die on covid. Kids were getting covid too, just not dying and long term covid consequences were observed in then. It can easily be that where old person died, young ended up with long term consequence. There is no reason to assume the effect would be uniform accross generations. ----- Either way, cell phone obsession a…

I don't see your argument. Are you suggesting that covid pruned old people with weak memory to the point that it improved their memory on average? Because that is the only conclusion of your argument combined with the data. And that's not just completely unfounded, it's a pretty wild violation of Occam's razor.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#193

Post by lrvick »

rpdillon wrote: post #180
rpdillon wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be arguing about avoiding constant connectivity. This is very different than not owning a smartphone. I think the conversation has gone off the rails, as I was critiquing your desire to impose a no smartphone lifestyle on others.

I can't reply to you anymore, but the study you cited is at least a couple of steps removed from the discussion. First, it's about offloading navigation to a computer, and observing that humans use less of their navigation skills when doing so. This is very far removed from "smartphone use causes mental health problems". Second, you claim it shows a "provably weaker hippocampus". But the study doesn't show that at al…

The data supports exactly the claim I am making: That indeed, offloading basic tasks we could do for ourselves, like navigation, decision making etc, is robbing our brains of mental exercise that would otherwise make them stronger and less dependent on technology.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#194

Post by lrvick »

dpark wrote: post #187
lrvick wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Telling parents who ask about FaceTime between friends that tablets are evil seems as effective as telling random smokers on the street that it’s going to kill them. I would just simply say it is against our lifestyle and suggest alternatives just as a vegan family might suggest alternatives to a BBQ birthday party. Facetime is not going to happen as my kids will never be be allowed Google or Apple accounts or smar…

You should of course do what you feel is best for your children. > Also I did in fact found a security, privacy, and digital sovereignty advocacy community called #! which has been operating for more than 20 years now, and has mentored hundreds of people looking to make healthier technology choices. That’s awesome. I think we do need better choices (not just abstinence from the tech).

I abstain from surveillance capitalism tech which is designed to track and distract. Google, Apple, and Qualcomm controlled devices are a non starter for me. I would rather be 20 years behind in tech and have sovereignty and reasonable privacy.

I am not at all opposed to useful tools in our pockets. Meshtastic messengers and the Precursor are the best candidates right now that might get tech back in my own pocket or that of kids, but they are not mature enough to daily drive just yet IMO.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#195

Post by lrvick »

d_tr wrote: post #188
lrvick wrote: post #64

Since giving up my cell phone entirely over 5 years ago, my productivity, memory, and overall happiness are at the highest levels they have ever been, in my late 30s. I no longer apologize to anyone for this lifestyle choice anymore since the benefits are something everyone deserves, but almost all opt out of today for made up reasons. I take photos with a pocket mirrorless, and take notes with a notebook. I tell tim…

Get a flip phone. Being reachable and able to reach is good, and you'll still get all the other benefits.

Any device connected to cell towers is constantly having its location tracked via triangulation, which is sold to endless surveillance capitalism organizations and governments to monitor where we shop, and where we protest, to optimally manipulate us.

I am specifically opting out of cellular networks for this reason, though open hardware/software wifi and meshtastic solutions I am always open to.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#196

Post by lrvick »

dpark wrote: post #172
autoexec wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online. Is there actually a pizza place that refuses to bring a pizza to someone without a cell phone app being involved? Like they have no phone number you can call from a landline or a website where you could place an order? Odds are good that you could get by just fine letting your kids school/…

You can surely get pizza delivered, though certainly I’ve had pizza delivery people text me because they couldn’t find my house. So having a cell phone is valuable even then. Part of my problem with the claims that cell phones are the problem is that the answer often seems to be a landline that you’re still available on. If you replace one phone with another, what’s the difference? This isn’t a sarcastic question, ei…

Most VOIP services will route SMS to email or a messenger of your choice. I get SMS just fine on my wifi devices, which I monitor when I am expecting a delivery.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#197

Post by lrvick »

gsinclair wrote: post #191
autoexec wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> though certainly I’ve had pizza delivery people text me because they couldn’t find my house. When you have a landline that still happens, but they call you instead of texting. It works great! > the answer often seems to be a landline that you’re still available on. If you replace one phone with another, what’s the difference? There are huge differences. Most of the problems with smart phones aren't "You can call pe…

So let’s agree that removing smartphones from one’s life is beneficial. Why not a dumb (mobile) phone, then? Why the passion for a landline? You can still exercise full control over when/where you answer it, but you gain a lot of useful convenience as well.

Any device connected to cell towers is constantly having its location tracked via triangulation, which is sold to endless surveillance capitalism organizations and governments to monitor where we shop, and where we protest, to optimally manipulate us.

I am specifically opting out of cellular networks for this reason, though open hardware/software wifi and meshtastic solutions I am always open to.

Also whenever possible I do not want to be reachable or distracted, say when having dinner out with my family, at a concert, or just standing in line in the post office. I make the decision when to open a laptop, it cannot summon me, and it takes more intention to use.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#198

Post by lrvick »

jodrellblank wrote: post #165
lrvick wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somewhat privacy. When you take cash out of an ATM, surely the serial numbers will be recorded as being dispensed to you. For large bills that is true to some extent, but having worked closely with secret service in the past at multiple points, they have confirmed my suspicion that $20s and below are virtually impossible to track and they do not bother unless they are specifically giving you marked bills because yo…

Why would it be virtually impossible for a bank to put an OCR camera on a bill counting machine? I didn’t mean the state tracking you, I meant the bank doing it so they can sell the data behind the scenes for the usual marketing reasons.

A bank knowing what bills were issued at an ATM is not the same thing as someone being able to tell which vending machine I put it into with good cross indexing to know which bill purchased which thing, as is the case with centralized credit card networks.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#199

Post by autoexec »

gsinclair wrote: post #191
autoexec wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> though certainly I’ve had pizza delivery people text me because they couldn’t find my house. When you have a landline that still happens, but they call you instead of texting. It works great! > the answer often seems to be a landline that you’re still available on. If you replace one phone with another, what’s the difference? There are huge differences. Most of the problems with smart phones aren't "You can call pe…

So let’s agree that removing smartphones from one’s life is beneficial. Why not a dumb (mobile) phone, then? Why the passion for a landline? You can still exercise full control over when/where you answer it, but you gain a lot of useful convenience as well.

A dumb phone seems like a pretty good compromise to me. Especially in situations where you're traveling. You'll get tracked and still have to deal with interruptions from texts, but you can always turn it off and that should keep it from disrupting you when you want to be focused on where you are/what you're doing/who you're with.

Re: Study finds memory decline surge in young people

#200

Post by rpdillon »

lrvick wrote: post #193
rpdillon wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply to you anymore, but the study you cited is at least a couple of steps removed from the discussion. First, it's about offloading navigation to a computer, and observing that humans use less of their navigation skills when doing so. This is very far removed from "smartphone use causes mental health problems". Second, you claim it shows a "provably weaker hippocampus". But the study doesn't show that at al…

The data supports exactly the claim I am making: That indeed, offloading basic tasks we could do for ourselves, like navigation, decision making etc, is robbing our brains of mental exercise that would otherwise make them stronger and less dependent on technology.

The study's authors did not even attempt to draw any conclusions about long-term impact on brain health or mental health from their study. You're free to do so, but I don't find it compelling.
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