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Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

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Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#191

Post by ProllyInfamous »

lwn wrote: post #48

I recently moved to a Dutch municipality that runs its own non-profit ISP. They installed a symmetric 1 Gbps fiber connection with a static IP at my house for 40 euros per month. The service is solid, there’s no upselling or throttling, and hosting things from home just works. I bring this up because when we talk about “open”, “fair” and “monopolies” the model of a local, non-profit ISP backed by the municipality cou…

Somewhat similar over here in Chattanooga (aka "Gig City"): our city's Electric Power Board has offered synchronous gig fiber for $75/month, a 300mbps "slower option" for $58/month — it's plenty fast — or 25gbps for $300/month... to all electric customers [0].

Of course our lobbied state congress critters passed a law to restrict this, so EPB can only offer internet to a limited geographic area (under the auspices of network monitoring of power delivery) — wouldn't want their Comcast-bros to have any competition! Certain apartment complexes are exempted, which prevents you from using EPB.

Wish more jurisdictions were even allowed to do this; wish politicians weren't such whores.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPB

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#192

Post by lifestyleguru »

realityking wrote: post #189
lifestyleguru wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How one can still buy into Berlin's hype in 2025?! Fuck their rental market, their landlords, three months deposit for completely empty apartment without even lightbulbs, copyright trolls, rundfunkbeitrag, rude customer service, schufa. Turn around and walk away.

> completely empty apartment without even lightbulbs This is such an interesting cultural divide. As a German moving abroad, I was shocked to find ugly light fixtures already on the ceiling. I’d wanna make the space my own and not live with my landlords decor choices.

Yeah apartment takeover and bringing in suitcases in darkness, carrying a flashlight, is such a unique German experience.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#193

Post by lifestyleguru »

realityking wrote: post #190
pimeys wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the government who spends billions to 3km of motorway a few people uses. To an airport that is one of the worst in EU and almost a decade late. And of course now cut from arts because of all this. And every single construction project takes forever. And costs a fortune. And it is impossible to build housing fast enough. The reason to be in Berlin has always been its great art scene. Now they are actively d…

> To an airport that is one of the worst in EU and almost a decade late. The delay is inexcusable but the resultant airport seems pretty good. Why do you consider it one of the worst in the EU?

I have one memory departing from the low cost carrier terminal at Schönefeld. The toilets were broken and the security was saying in broken English to the passengers "this is what you wanted, it's your own fault". I'm not even interested in checking how that miserable place looks right now.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#194

Post by PhilKunz »

marcusb wrote: post #167
galaxy_gas wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also likely factually wrong as most major ISPs use GGC for popular traffic

After using Deutsche Telekom as an example of how great direct peering is, a few paragraphs later the article uses Deutsche Telekom as an example of the dangers of using peering provider intermediaries.

Is it the only peering of Starlink though?

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#195

Post by tormeh »

pimeys wrote: post #188
tormeh wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you get when you have rent control. Landlords are going to maximize profits somehow, and if they can't increase rents, they'll decrease costs and try to find ways around the rent cap to squeeze tenants anyway. There's a gap between market price and regulated price, and that tension causes a lot of issues. Not that non-regulated pricing has no issues either, but at least it's a bit more up-front about the…

Also how bad the Berlin government is and has always been. It's almost a crime how they sold almost all the public housing to private investors. The outcome of this has been slow regression of Berlin. From an interesting and pioneering artist haven to a boring and ugly catastrophe. Like, what's really left when all the interesting things are gone?

Money and jobs. But yes, the government really took cheap housing for granted and made no effort to keep it that way. Actually they took measures to destroy unused housing. But that's government for you. Even left-wing government hates cheap housing.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#196

Post by marcusb »

PhilKunz wrote: post #194
marcusb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After using Deutsche Telekom as an example of how great direct peering is, a few paragraphs later the article uses Deutsche Telekom as an example of the dangers of using peering provider intermediaries.

Is it the only peering of Starlink though?

? My comment had nothing to do with Starlink.

Your first example I was referring to - which you've now edited out of the article[0] to be more generic - stated:

> When Deutsche Telekom customers want to watch YouTube, that traffic flows directly from Google's network to Deutsche Telekom's network at a Frankfurt exchange point—maybe four or five router hops, minimal latency, no intermediaries. It's elegant. It's efficient. And it's exactly what Vodafone is abandoning.

Later:

> Deutsche Telekom pioneered this model in Germany, and the results have been catastrophic for customers. Not "slightly annoying" or "a bit slower"—genuinely, documentably terrible.

0 - original here: https://web.archive.org/web/20251107180616/https://coffee.li...

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#197

Post by ExoticPearTree »

Greed. The shortest explanation.

There is this idea in Europe (and I think it is taking shape in other parts of the world) that content providers should also pay the ISPs for the traffic to/from them. Basically ISPs want to double-dip in making money from both sides of the pipe.

And this needs to be put to rest, otherwise we'll pay for the Internet access like we pay for cable TV: Netflix - $5/mo extra, HBO - $3/mo extra, Facebook - $2/mo extra.

I am all for capitalism, but greed needs to have a hard cap at some point.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#198

Post by noAnswer »

lorenzk wrote: post #177

I have had sporadic problems with Vodafone Germany’s IPv4 routing for months, sent detailed analyses and refused in advance to pay for any technicians they might send because the problem could not be on my property. They sent two technicians who confirmed my view. Then they charged me 160 EUR for them without fixing the issue.

You have to go to forum.vodafone.de:

1. State stat the error also occurs with the Vodafone router.

2. that you already have done a factory reset of the Vodafone router.

3. that you already have turned your Vodafone router off for 24 hours and it didn't fix the error.

4. that you already talked to the hotline multiple times.

After that you have to pray that someone with the same problem comes along and endorse your problem. Like, "I have the same problem since...". This sometimes conjures a Vodafone guy who tells you he has informed the technicians. Than you have won and within less than a day the error is gone.

I was six month without IPv6 even though the error message was clear. The forum route finally worked.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#199

Post by noAnswer »

inemesitaffia wrote: post #181
noAnswer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The play by major content providers" like Google? Where in order to become a "Verified Peering Provider" you are not permitted to use a IX?! https://peering.google.com/#/options/verified-peering-provid...

The restriction is only to Google. 1299, a Google gold partner is at IXes

You know who else is gold partner and at IXes?!

Inter.link! https://inter.link/google-verified-peering-provider/

"As Google discontinues its direct peering agreements at Internet Exchanges worldwide"

Wait... does that mean that "Google is killing the open internet?!" Quick "write" a AI rage bait article about it.

Re: Vodafone Germany is changing the open internet, one peering connection at a time

#200

Post by stego-tech »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #141
stego-tech wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because western governments (and those whose governments were modeled from western regimes - like post-war South Korea and Japan) have become victim to regulatory capture and corruption. It’s why the FCC has repeatedly killed, blocked, or reversed reforms like net neutrality or “nutrition labels” on ISPs, and why South Korea gave in to “fair share” regulations that deterred further investment. Tech money is hugely in…

> The problem isn’t regulation, but regulatory capture ensuring companies get the regulations they desire and benefit from. Aka regulation..... Nearly all regulation is for regulatory capture and if you think of something that isn't it probably just outlived who it was designed to capture for.

That’s an incredibly nihilistic and naive way of viewing regulation. Pre-Reagan but post-Depression, much of the regulations passed were beneficial to society and harmful to Capital interests: forcibly dividing investment banking from retail, for instance, to protect consumer deposits; the FDA, for gradually weeding out snake oil “cure-alls” and ensuring the safety of foodstuffs; eliminating child labor, setting livable minimum wages, creating overtime rules, protecting Unions and workers; safety standards for buildings like fire sprinklers, protected evacuation stairwells, engineering rules and sign-off requirements; and on, and on, and on.

Regulation is overwhelmingly positive, but the past fifty years have been a deliberate demonstration of the frailty and abusability of regulations by entrenched capital via regulatory capture, mainly to create people who (often unknowingly) champion a return to flammable mattresses, tainted foodstuffs, and corporate monopolies in the name of deregulation.

Regulations are a tool, a tool that can be wielded for the benefit of society or the benefit of Capital. It’s up to the electorate to be educated enough to advocate for proper use of said tool, rather than ignorantly swallow propaganda to let Capital run roughshod with them.

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