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IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

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Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#191

Post by pinkmuffinere »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #184
idbehold wrote: post #181

The term "range" (in the context of a "home") typically describes a multi-function cooking appliance that features a rangetop for heating pots and an oven directly beneath it. Why is this page about lightbulbs? The subtitle even has the word they should've used instead of "range": "products".

Range (noun): a set of similar things https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/range

To be fair, I think most usage is of the form "range of ____". Even the definitions provided illustrate this with "range of options", "range of opinions", "range of model railway accessories". The exception is "This jacket is part of our autumn/spring range", which is a formulation that I've personally never heard; I would generally expect "autumn/spring line".

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#192

Post by oritron »

Fwirt wrote: post #176
oritron wrote: post #166

Most of my current-gen IKEA switches will pop out from their steel cradles with normal button presses, because of the curved back of the switch and the curved cradle it connects to magnetically. They've thrown in die-cut double sided adhesive tissue in what I assume was an afterthought, which doesn't peel from one backer sheet in any of the packages I've opened... Maybe it's humidity or temperature sensitive? After a…

I have been spending hours the past couple weeks "ensmartening" my home with IoT switches and power outlets. Home Assistant is gorgeous and is an absolute feat of engineering and a testament to the power of open source, but messing with it you can tell that it's very much "by nerds, for nerds". I don't expect my wife to learn to edit YAML files so she can customize a dashboard. The drag and drop editor mostly works b…

There are also Tuya zigbee devices and people have hacked local control of Tuya wifi bulbs to varying degrees. My best stuff is IKEA: their battery powered devices use AAA so I can throw in rechargeable cells and there isn't a ton of waste in CR2032s, and they make the only inexpensive Zigbee buttons I've seen that don't include a double-click (Rodret, not the very similar Somrig). The benefit there is commands are nearly instantaneous, rather than waiting for the maximum double click time before deciding it's a single click. The RGB bulbs don't have a lot of brightness to them in color modes, I wonder if that will change with the new products.

I've got a few locally-controlled wifi bulbs that I bought before seriously getting into home automation. They are Tuya white-label, I'm using the tuya-local integration. Since I can't do something like a zigbee `bind` they are fully network dependent, when they go I'll replace them with IKEA bulbs.

I agree Home Assistant still needs a nerd for setup and tinkering but the default dashboard is impressive and all of the functionality is outstanding.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#193

Post by andylynch »

idbehold wrote: post #189
AndrewDucker wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range (noun): a set of similar things https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/range

Range (noun): a large box-shaped device that is used to cook and heat food, either by putting the food inside or by putting it on the top https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/range#ca...

Observe how you have to scroll down past the other senses mentioned to reach this one; dictionaries usually put the common senses first.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#194

Post by lynndotpy »

microtonal wrote: post #163
lynndotpy wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They started requiring an account to use the lights, and support started stating stating that the bulbs will not be usable without an account or the app, with the CTO stating intention to deprecate the local APIs entirely. This flies in the face of why I bought Hue. These are woes I thought I'd be "safe" from when I bought from Philips. I never wanted to create an account or use an app. After spending time setting up…

Do you have pointers about the firmware update part? Aren't they just Zigbee devices in the end that you can connect to any other Zigbee hub? I thought it's primarily required when using their bridge?

Not sure, I washed my hand of the whole thing a few years ago.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#195

Post by kalaksi »

Fwirt wrote: post #176
oritron wrote: post #166

Most of my current-gen IKEA switches will pop out from their steel cradles with normal button presses, because of the curved back of the switch and the curved cradle it connects to magnetically. They've thrown in die-cut double sided adhesive tissue in what I assume was an afterthought, which doesn't peel from one backer sheet in any of the packages I've opened... Maybe it's humidity or temperature sensitive? After a…

I have been spending hours the past couple weeks "ensmartening" my home with IoT switches and power outlets. Home Assistant is gorgeous and is an absolute feat of engineering and a testament to the power of open source, but messing with it you can tell that it's very much "by nerds, for nerds". I don't expect my wife to learn to edit YAML files so she can customize a dashboard. The drag and drop editor mostly works b…

Years ago, I specifically went with zigbee because it's low-power and a simpler protocol stack (and open). No need to even think if the device will run offline or what kind of API it will use. I'm running HA and all the hardware I needed was a USB zigbee dongle and that's it. You pair your sensors, outlets etc. to it using a GUI and by pressing a physical button. No need to coordinate anything yourself, the mesh network can take care of itself.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#196

Post by cameldrv »

05 wrote: post #173
cameldrv wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thread is fine, but also wifi is fine. Sleepy end device doesn't work very well with wifi, as I understand it, (from trying to implement it using the ESP32 SDK), because Matter generally wants all devices to check in several times an hour at least. Take a smart scale for example. Mine uses wifi and is in deep sleep almost all of the time. When you step on it, it weighs you, connects to wifi, and sends the measurement…

ESP32 has inherent sleep issues and before their latest chip (c6 I think) 'deep sleep' was really a gpio- or rtc- triggered boot followed by a power off. Doesn't mean it's impossible to implement wifi sleep efficiently, but if you do the math anything wifi based won't work off cr2032 for even a year unless daily updates is all you need. Motion sensors are supposed to fire more often, and with much less latency that c…

You can put the ESP32 into deep sleep, and it can wake based on a timer, or it can run the ultra-low-power core which is a very slow, very low memory, very low power core. It's good enough to look at ADC or I2C devices and do a little math. This can be woken up fairly frequently to check a sensor, and say, compare against a previous measurement, and then wake up the main core if you need to process the measurement or do WiFi.

I think you're right that this won't work well with a CR2032, but if you're careful about using good voltage regulators it can last a long time on 4 AAs.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#197

Post by zamalek »

yborg wrote: post #150
moshib wrote: post #3

IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years. I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.

The FYRTUR blinds were kinda crap, constantly had issues with them losing their minds and having to redo the setup. I also have the later Tredansen cellular shades, and those have been good ... but I just checked and those seem to be discontinued as well. Perils of being early adopter, but kind of soured on the whole smart home concept unless you are wealthy enough to redo all of your home lighting and window treatme…

> constantly had issues with them losing their minds and having to redo the setup

I forked out for SmartWings blinds. You can choose between either Zigbee/Matter or Z-Wave (or neither I think?). The first-party hub is completely optional (that's important to look out for with Zigbee, which can be vendor-locked). They are drastically simpler than the average motorized blinds I've seen around, so I haven't had any of the mechanical failure nightmares. Pretty happy overall; though I haven't had them for 10 years.

I do use them as a kind of alarm clock as I am absolutely horrific with mornings, so manual ones wouldn't really work out for me.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#198

Post by DavidPeiffer »

ssl-3 wrote: post #178
Ajedi32 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware of that. One other concern I have with Matter is that, if I understand correctly, Thread+Matter devices get their own IP address with internet access, whereas with Zigbee all of that has to be controlled by the gateway. In theory that's a win for Matter, but I'm a little concerned about the security and enshitification problems that might cause. I kinda like the idea that I can buy a cheap IoT lock off…

Neither Matter nor Matter-over-Thread require Internet access. We really should be yelling for advancements in simple-to-configure dedicated, restricted VLANs and SSIDs for IOT devices instead of yelling about how inappropriate we think that using IP is. (Historically, IP wins in these conundrums anyway. IP has been succession of grand successes for decades. Resistance is futile. We should work to prepare for the eve…

>We really should be yelling for advancements in simple-to-configure dedicated, restricted VLANs and SSIDs for IOT devices instead of yelling about how inappropriate we think that using IP is.

What is the lay of the land for typical consumers in this respect? Any products you've worked with or would recommend?

I've recently started with Home Assistant and have been adding devices to my single network. The ISP provided eero modem/router doesn't provide VLAN capability.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#199

Post by zamalek »

vollbrecht wrote: post #59
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come) In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hi…

A standard where you have to pay to play. Cheapest option is 3000$ per product and 500$ annual.

This is a double-edged sword.

Zigbee's issue was that anyone could make devices and modify the protocol. Tons of devices are vendor-locked to their first-party hub. Philips attempted to do this recently with a firmware update and only backed off due to extremely bad PR.

Z-Wave has the same "problem" as Matter. You have to pay the consortium per product. Part of that what that pays for is testing, and cross-vendor compatibility is mandatory. As a consumer you are guaranteed that a Z-Wave device will work with any hub (and therefore Home Assistant/completely locally). You own Z-Wave devices.

I ran both in my old home, and used Zigbee devices where possible (Z-Wave devices are often more expensive).

I would much rather have it the way of Z-Wave and Matter. It is the lesser of two evils.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#200

Post by close04 »

torginus wrote: post #108
close04 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub. For Matter (regardless of network connectivity - WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread) this is part of the certification, the devices must be controllable locally and without internet connectivity at least for basic or core functions. For Zigbee there'…

Pretty sure Zigbee also defines a control layers, so there's such a thing as a standard switch or power meter, or thermostat which can be controlled by any generic piece of software. A lot of devices are not compliant though and either have extra functionality exposed in a nonstandard way, or don't comform to the standard well enough. So your Zigbee light switch will probably workout any fuss regardless of vendor but…

> A lot of devices are not compliant though

That's exactly the problem, there was no standard protocol for communication over Zigbee. Manufacturers could implement whatever they wanted on top of it and put the Zigbee logo, like you can put the WiFi logo on a device that speaks a proprietary protocol over WiFi. You bought into an ecosystem and if you wanted a device from outside of it, you needed another hub.

> So your Zigbee light switch will probably workout any fuss

Big "depends". Out of the box it will only work for the few manufacturers who look to be compatible with some other hubs. I tested a lot of basic devices (simple switches or bulbs) with various hubs with little success. Philips, IKEA, Bosch, Tuya, Aqara, Osram, etc. Couldn't discover, add, or control them properly without the corresponding hub.

If you use a device with HA and a Zigbee stick (router/coordinator) then you benefit from a lot of development done in the background to "translate" between all the variations. But that's not something non-techies want to deal with, it's too much of a hassle.

This is the problem that Matter solves. Certified devices must implement the standard communication protocol over the network of choice. So no matter the manufacturer, if I see a Matter logo I know the device will work with my Matter.

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