Live data from Hacker News

Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

openculture.com

191–200 of 215 posts

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if you want an odd niche no small walkable area can support it. You'd be really surprised. I knew smaller cities with shops dedicated to Warhammer 40k. [1] (Surprisingly, still in business :) ) > Even something like a guitar shop need a very dense area for people who live in walking distance to be enough to support it. A guitar shop just needs enough people interested in guitars. Being walkable doesn't mean the…

My comments (this thread) were in context of 120 years ago when cars were a rich person's toy and most people lived on farms and so didn't have access to the transit that existed. That a store can make it today is different because context is different. How many of the customers of the Warhammer store walked there from their house? How many came from a different cities because it was the closest store? The store does…

> most people lived on farms

Not in the UK but yes in the US (in the 1900s, only 10% of the UK population farmed. Most were in the service industry and manufacturing). There's also a very different city layouts in the UK vs the US.

If you were a farmer in the US in the 1900s, you'd mostly likely ride a horse.

> How many of the customers of the Warhammer store walked there from their house?

Almost 0, but a very large percentage got there via bus and walked from the bus station to the store. For these older cities that's just how it has to be because there's no room for parking.

In the context of the 1900s, biking and walking is how people would get around in the UK, they'd simply not go downtown as often. In that city in particular there are a TON of old walking trails from the outskirts to town center. I know because I walked them.

You might think "Well, it's a 1 or 2 miles away, that's just too far" but honestly when all you are used to is walking it's not. It was just more expected that taking an hour long walk happens.

> How many came from a different cities because it was the closest store?

For that city, almost 0. It's way too isolated. Even today in england you'll find a lot of people that very rarely leave the city they were born in.

> but I expect the majority of customers are not walking. Maybe they drive, maybe they take transit.

Most of it will be park and walk. You are correct in assuming that they'll likely take transit or drive to a closer location. However, because not every store has parking like the US, it's most likely that they'll have to walk some distance to and from the store however they decide to get there.

If you click around the shrewsbury city in google earth street view, what you'll notice is very few cars in the city center and a lot of people walking around.

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#192

Does anyone know why we don't have these anymore, except in buildings like airports and shopping malls?

They're very unreliable because of the constant wear, slow compared to other modes, and dangerous for crowds and demographics with limited mobility.

Outdoor variants don't protect riders from weather, and having to deal with extremes of cold, damp, and heat makes them even less robust.

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think moving sidewalks could be more suitable for shorter distances than public transport or taxis. In many situations, it doesn’t make sense to order a taxi for a trip of less than 1,000 meters, or to walk to the nearest bus stop, then wait for the bus, just to travel a single stop. There are many people with disabilities who may struggle to walk these distances and would benefit from such an option. Additionally,…

The problem is cost/benefit. most places just don't have enough people walking far to make them worth it. They cost a fair amount to install/run, and so when few people use them they are not worth it. They also block people who are trying to cross the street (to get to the next store) instead of going down the street. They they are common in airports rare elsewhere - they don't make sense for most locations.

> most places just don't have enough people walking far to make them worth it

I would place them in the city centers of major cities, as there should be more than enough potential users.

> They also block people who are trying to cross the street.

Cities could be redesigned by banning cars from their centers, as is already the case in several places around the world.

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#194
The article nicely points out that New York City also had an elevated sidewalk (or plans) in the late 1800s!

Here are the designs and sketches. It sounds so reasonable. I am curious why they didn't keep it.

https://culturenow.org/site/a5883d3d-b1fa-4cb1-a6ca-a3a692e5...

https://www.6sqft.com/in-1872-broadway-almost-became-a-giant...

Then the car industry got rid of the idea (along with the trams).

https://www.boweryboyshistory.com/2016/06/a-city-of-bridges-...

https://www.nytimes.com/1915/05/06/archives/elevated-sidewal...

https://www.archpaper.com/2015/11/long-history-tall-sidewalk...

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is cost/benefit. most places just don't have enough people walking far to make them worth it. They cost a fair amount to install/run, and so when few people use them they are not worth it. They also block people who are trying to cross the street (to get to the next store) instead of going down the street. They they are common in airports rare elsewhere - they don't make sense for most locations.

> most places just don't have enough people walking far to make them worth it I would place them in the city centers of major cities, as there should be more than enough potential users. > They also block people who are trying to cross the street. Cities could be redesigned by banning cars from their centers, as is already the case in several places around the world.

Moving sidewalks are worse than cars. At least with cars if you want to cross in the middle of the block you might find a break in traffic where you can do it. The moving sidewalk blocks crossing the street (except at intersections) 100% of the time.

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#196
post #183
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. I want to see public transport in a city done with rollercoasters. The amount using it for fun would go up dramatically. It would change overnight from just another utterly boring city not worth visiting into a tourist hot spot. Similarly, people who need to be places will make it work. Life is about the journey. All those roads and other boring means of transportation are just places no one wants to be…

A roller coaster would be fun. I've always kind of wanted a city to city flight that you could just jump out of with a parachute and land at your destination without the airport faff. On the more realistic end of things, ebikes are fun. >e-biking over a bridge, preferably at night — has developed its own ardent following. Liberated for the most part of any physical exertion, e-bikers can instead focus on the texture…

Fun is good and all, if you enjoy it I won't argue. I enjoy a sunset myself from time to time. However most people are not enjoying in the moment. They want transportation only for the purposes of getting someplace so they can get something else done (or enjoy something else). Fun is good, but not everything is fun. I need to get home from work so I can get supper done in time for the evening activities (by coincidence I've been asked to make my homemade pretzels tonight - that takes 2 hours so I need to get home as soon as work is done)

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#197
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ8ehplVFp4&t=636 the handrail is driven by a friction wheel that wears out over time, so its diameter gradually decreases and the handrail speed slows down (until it gets too out of sync, and the friction wheel is replaced).

So when it’s new it feels broken, the friction wheel wears until it works properly for a period of time, and then it feels broken again, so they replace the wheel with on that goes back to making it still feel broken and start the cycle again. How frustrating.

That’s the case for many/most mechanical assemblies with wear parts.

I installed a new steering box in my Jeep a few years ago - or at least, I think that’s the name of the component, but it seems wrong to my ear. The part that converts rotational motion of the steering wheel into linear motion in the steering components for the front wheels.

Anyhow, it was very tight. Not only was there no play, but I could tell it was taxing my power steering system more than normal. It took about a year for that to level out, and another 2-3 years for it to feel “normal” again. Another ~5 years and it would have exhibited perceptible “play” in the steering.

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#198
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why they can't just use a toothed belt.

Because you'd have teeth rubbing out all through the course, which would eat them through very quickly, or you'd have to add toothed rollers throughout the course which would increase complexity tremendously.

If I were designing it and wanted to extend the maintenance interval, I think I’d use something like a CVT for a tensioner. The drive pulley would wear as normal, and the tensioner would be of a harder material and cone-shaped. As the drive pulley wears, the tensioner slides toward the large end so that the diameter of the drive pulley and the diameter of the section of the tensioner in contact with the belt remains a consistent value.

You could probably use a roller on the back side of the drive pulley to automatically adjust it, too. No electromechanical stuff needed.

Oh, and add a “squealer” - a piece of metal that makes an awful racket once the drive pulley wears down to a critical point, prompting those responsible that it should be replaced before it begins to induce unacceptable wear on the belt itself.

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#199
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody carries a gun in Heinlein stories, so those terrorists will be quickly dealt with by armed citizens, thus confirming the superiority of Libertarianism.

In 1940 when he wrote this Heinlein was a New Deal Democrat supporter of Franklin Roosevelt. He was an active progressive who had recently worked on Upton Sinclair’s socialist “End Poverty in California” campaign. His libertarian shift was twenty years in the future, in his fifties.

Heinlein's alleged libertarian shift. In the 1940s Heinlein was mentioned as a Social Credit supporter which implied he was always on the libertarian side of Socialism. Social Credit was the American party killed/disrupted by the red scare that believed in a UBI and universal health care. His posthumous published but first written novel "For Us, The Living" is even a wonderfully naive paean to UBI and credits a Social Credit party for its enactment and ensuing utopia.

Heinlein formally disowned some of those ideas, but did so under the duress of the McCarthy era and the Red Scare. Yet he also kept writing about them, just somewhat cloaked. Both "Stranger in a Strange Land" and "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" are some of the most Socialist books I've ever read, if you assume the first person narrators are for the most part bloviating Vonnegut-esque patsies (rather than the author stand-ins they are often read to be; Heinlein seemed to clever for that). "Stranger in a Strange Land" is entirely about community effort and Socialism. It contrasts interestingly with "For Us, The Living" in part because cynicism seems to have been the big shift and Heinlein can no longer imagine America leading the charge towards Socialism and invents a dead Martian race to do it. "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is often credited as a deeply Libertarian book, but I think a lot of that is misreading the narrative and not paying attention to especially the second half of the book, which is entirely about AI-lead worker's strikes towards the goals of unionization. The first half sounds like a Libertarian dream and the narrator character describes it in lush terms that make it sound so, but plot is about overthrowing that and building a much more Socialist Moon together. Heinlein even comments about that misreading in "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" which intentionally begins on a Moon like the one people reading the first half of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" seem to love, dialed up to 11 to better make it a grungy harsh Noir place for a classic gumshoe-for-hire to live, and eventually through world hopping the main character does happen to stop by "Mike's Moon" (Heinlein actually names his timelines based on the first man to step foot on the moon, I'm feeling to lazy to look this one up, but this timeline is also prominently known for a Moon AI named "Mike") after the events of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and it reads a lot more Socialist and lot kinder than the protagonist's Moon the book started in.

A lot of modern Libertarians wouldn't expect a crossover boundary with Socialism like Social Credit, which is one of the problems with claiming politics is a spectrum or plane (there are more useful curves where ideologies meet than that), and a lot of modern Libertarians don't trust ideas like UBI and universal health care and don't trust things like unions again this century (despite having past pro-worker/pro-union perspectives), so it is easy to claim that Heinlein shifted over 20 years. But also, if Heinlein was a Social Credit + Libertarian throughout his life, the rest of politics shifted so much around Heinlein that he may have stayed in exactly the same place and it looked like he shifted.

I think his writing certainly shifted, but I think towards cynicism and anger and frustration after WWII and especially after the Red Scare, not necessarily towards deeper Libertarianism.

I also think there are lessons there for modern Libertarians, too. There are modern Libertarians feeling receptive to talking about ideas like UBI again as something that can have space in Libertarian conversations. There could be room in American politics again for a party like Social Credit that can be a coalition between Libertarian values and Democratic Socialist ones. The Libertarians could find better creative allies than destructive tendencies of "the far right". Talking about Heinlein's books isn't a bad place to start those conversations.

Re: Paris had a moving sidewalk in 1900, and a Thomas Edison film captured it (2020)

#200
post #179
post #3

I'd guess that Heinlein was aware of it and scaled it up in his imagination. The Roads must roll — they are the arteries of the nation. When they stop, everything stops. Factories idle, food rots, men starve. The nation cannot live without its Roads. A thousand feet wide, level as a floor, strip after strip moving past in ordered procession. The slow strips on the outside moved at five miles an hour; the inner ones f…

The slow strips on the outside moved at five miles an hour; the inner ones faster and faster... Not good enough. The same strip should go faster and faster over time and decelerate near its end. It sounds impossible, but I can think of a few ways to make it work.

The naive implementation is a train: everybody enters at once at a fixed point, the strip accelerates, everybody leave at the next stop or stay for the next stop. I wonder if you devised a way to make people keep accelerating while other enter and leave the strip. Side strips at lower speeds are too easy a solution.
Post reply on HN