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Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

telegraph.co.uk

191–200 of 211 posts

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#191
post #66

Sudan is the 3rd largest producer of gold in Africa but it remains the poorest country in Africa because the companies that exploit those resources are never Sudanese. The RSF got their weapons by acting as mercenaries for the UAE to fight against the Houthis in Yemen. Fighting as a mercenary is pretty much the only reliable source of income for many people in the country.

... unfortunately what matters is that gold is a curse. Colonialism hundreds of years ago froze extractive oppressive hierarchies, and even though many places gained independence the new elite mostly took the already in-place system and started to run it to benefit themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Origins_of_Comparativ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#192
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very strange if American weapons weren't used in a conflict this big, which is a very different question from "did the US government sell weapons into this war".

I've looked for articles and don't see anything about US weapons. It would be very strange, indeed, but supposition isn't proof and I can't find anything suggesting the US is involved in anyway. Colour me surprised, tbh.

I wasn't here to 'provide proof'. Just pointing out that any conflict beyond a certain size almost certainly has some weapon from every large arms producer deployed in the field. I can't image how many tons of small arms we left laying around in Iraq, Afghanistan and the rest that are now being recirculated around the worlds conflict zones. I remember after the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan if you were in the right place and knew the right people you could get cases of NIB AKs for like $25 a rifle (no, I didn't). It's not politics...it's logistics.

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#194
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that true of Christianity as well? If it is the true Muslim's duty to spread Islam by the sword, then why did it take centuries for populations to convert to Islam in places like Egypt which were conquered by leaders who knew Mohammed personally? Why did places which were never conquered by Muslim caliphates like Indonesia have significant Muslim populations today?

Some comparative theology time I guess? Notably, I never said ‘by the sword’ was the only way. There is definitely a history of a number of religions doing it though! First, I am under no illusions that what a religions book (or common formal teachings) says necessarily matches what its stated followers actually do. Judaism essentially forbids ‘recruiting’, and it is quite difficult to convert. Mainly because Judaism…

I appreciate your long and thoughtful answer. I am actually Muslim, and from the Middle-East. I agree with most of what you said, I only disagree with the premise that Islam is an inherently violent religion. While I usually ignore such statements, seeing this atrocious conflict in Sudan being reduced to "Islam bad" especially when it's primarily non-Arab Muslims being genocided just irked me too much.

To your point, you're right that the Quran and the Hadith make some statements that to an unlearned individual's interpretation, appear to promote total war against the unbelievers. As you also point out, this is not unique to Islam, as demonstrated by the Crusades for example. I don't think the relative accessibility of the Quran today is a valid point, as in the current day and age anyone can pick up the Bible and read something like Matthew 10:34 [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2010%3A...] and claim that Jesus ordered Christians to fight.

Continuing to use Christianity as an example, today you don't get that many extremist Christian groups because most places with significant Christian populations are well developed, generally have highly educated populations, robust political processes, and strong rule of law. Back to the map OP posted, if you overlay it with a map of Christian populations, you'll find a strong overlap in central Africa. Central Africa was recently decolonized, has unresolved political issues, and is majority Christian, as a result you get extremist organizations like the LRA forming [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army_insur...].

My point is, it's easy to manipulate some holy text or another to claim it orders to fight the disbelievers. I would say the average Joe who does not need to worry about how tomorrow he will feed his family and educate his children will never get up in arms to kill someone just because of a cherry-picked verse from a holy book. If that happens and this Joe gets up to murder his neighbor, either Joe is a psychopath at heart, or the core reason is something else. If that wasn't the case, then Islam has a huge problem with disobedience, because its 2 billion followers aren't slaughtering everyone right now.

Anecdote time. I had the pleasure of acquainting someone who seriously thought about joining ISIS during their heyday. He was in high-school with me, I didn't know him very closely, but enough to paint a picture. He lived in a dysfunctional home with a terrible father who was too harsh and too violent. He lived in the street most of his childhood, basically treating his home as where he goes to sleep. He came from a poor background, was rock bottom academically, all while living in a country where most youth do not have high hopes for the future. He also had a history of drug abuse and generally thuggish behavior. On a spiritual level, the dude did not give a single iota about any teaching of Islam.

It was 2015. In the few months leading up to his arrest, he had a change of mind and heart. His closer friends tell me he started joining some FB groups where ISIS was doing recruitment. Having been exposed to a couple of recruitment videos myself, I imagine it would have been super lucrative for someone like him. They were always boasting about the loot the fighters would get from battle, how in a couple of months of fighting you could have your own house and land, a nice truck, a subservient wife, all while being super badass with guns and fancy combat gear AND God would love you and send you to heaven if you die (but you wouldn't, because look at the map, ISIS is unstoppable). It was almost like a parody version of the American dream. No need for a higher education, job interviews, hard work, or knowing the right people. If you can pick up a gun and don't mind killing these worthless scum who don't know any better, we can take care of the rest!

Somehow he was arrested and was imprisoned before he could join ISIS. He was released from prison a couple of years ago, and from what I hear some special prison treatment took its toll and now he wouldn't hurt a fly. When this guy tried to join ISIS, was his sole motivation the belief that God earnestly ordered Muslims to indiscriminately fight the unbelievers? A better question: would he have joined them without the promise of wealth beyond his wildest dreams and a chance to start anew?

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#195
So strange that I haven’t seen global coverage of this crisis on a daily basis, or demonstrations for “Free Sudan” on campuses. If anyone has a theory about why this humanitarian disaster doesn’t receive the same attention as Gaza, which didn't have such events, please feel free to share.

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#196
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Wait, the U.S. is looking away from Qatar’s sponsorship of Hamas at the behest of Israel? How does that square with the face that Israel literally attacked Qatar to get to Hamas leaders in there?

Netanyahu having had people transfer cash was a big scandal in Israel.

Trying to murder the negotiating team in Doha was an effort to stop the US from pushing through 'a deal' as it's commonly been called. They've previously been successful at this and it likely annoyed the US that the israelis failed.

The thing is that "Hamas" is used as a synonym for words like "terrorist" and "palestinian" and "arab", and in some circles in the US and largely in Israel "Qatar" means the same thing. It's the un-chosen people that need to serve or die, basically. Hence the anger at Netanyahu, and an important reason why he clings to power, he doesn't want to step off until he's made history some other way that makes israelis forget his scandals.

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#197
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also likely that the US is kept at bay by trading UAE acceptance of Israel in return for diplomatic cover and military passivity. The US destruction of Libya has been quite important for the UAE:s ability to supply the RSF as well, a lot of the weapon transports pass through there.

> likely that the US is kept at bay by trading UAE acceptance of Israel in return for diplomatic cover and military passivity Sudanese tensions predate the current mess in Gaza, as well as the Abraham Accords. At this point I’m surprised we aren’t seeing people conclude that we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because of Israel.

The last time Janjaweed-style gangs engaged in similar acts of apartheid and genocide in Darfur the US opposed it and openly called it a genocide. This was in 2007.

I'm not sure when UAE ramped up funding and equipping of similar groups in the Sahel and Maghreb, but when Libya collapses in 2011 they decided to do it there and a few years later they rebrand Janjaweed-militias as RSF and expects them to professionalise because they are provided with resources and diplomatic cover.

Unsurprisingly these gangs in Libya, Mali, Sudan and elsewhere don't stop doing racist murder and rape because it is made easier for them to get away with. Also unsurprisingly, the UAE sees the US as the main risk that they'll be stopped and held accountable, because the ICC and ICJ just don't work as a decent person would expect them to.

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#198
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment merely said UAE has become strategically influential in finance, transport (cargo shipping (#5 in world), world's busiest international passenger airport), tourism. Nothing about being fond. 5% GDP growth in non-oil. More diversified than Saudi. #2 globally for being "easy to do business in and with". Top-10 in Global Soft Power Index since 2023 [0], rose from #18 in 2020. Dubai has become a global influe…

>Looks like the US is backing UAE as Saudi wanes How exactly are they waning? Last I heard everyone there was still as rich as ever due to the oil money.

In the long term, Venezuela has more proven reserves (but much less production capacity). Or nuclear + renewable will overtake fossil fuel. In either scenario, Saudi's share of total global energy production will likely decline by late 21st century.

And in non-oil GDP growth, UAE is currently outpacing Saudi.

As to "everyone there was still as rich as ever due to the oil money", depends on who "everyone" is: 77% of the total workforce in Saudi is migrant workers, many of whom earn < US$5000/yr. They're not citizens.

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we verify those images are not edited or generated?

Why would you fake satellite images? The perpetrators uploaded videos by themselves

Because war propaganda exist. Verify, don't trust.

Re: Visible from space, Sudan's bloodied sands expose a massacre of thousands

#200
post #144
post #69

[flagged]

[flagged]

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