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Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

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Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#191

Post by enopod_ »

Steve44 wrote: post #179
kleiba wrote: post #2

The term "Swiss cheese" is a constant source of amusement for people from Europe... you know, like, there is only one type of cheese made in Switzerland...

In the UK it's fairly common to use the term "Swiss cheese". Most people would know you are talking about Emmental or Gruyere and it would have the bubbles/holes in it. Although they are not the same cheese, they are quite close in texture and flavour and are fairly interchangeable to the point where I don't think a significant number of people could tell you which was which. There is also the Swiss Cheese Model whic…

Emmentaler and Gruyère close in texture and flavour and interchangeable? Oh boy, if you ever travel to Switzerland, I recommend you to keep your opinions on cheese to yourself. ;) Emmentaler has holes, is low in salt and has a taste which is on the bland side (I personally don't like it), whereas Gruyère has no holes, is saltier and has a much richer and "rounder" flavour. It comes in different stages of ripening, from young, which is soft in texture and mild, to old, which is hard and has a much stronger flavour. I personally like Gruyère mi-salé a lot, the semi-ripened one. It's close to a perfect cheese if you ask me.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#192

Post by matttproud »

enopod_ wrote: post #184
chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

As a Swiss, I can assure you that this is false. Most cheese varieties have very strict quality requirements, if they're not met, the cheese may only end up as no-name ground cheese for pizza or something like that. But an Emmentaler, Gruyere, or Sbrinz always has the same quality, no matter if it's exported or for domestic consumption.

As an American living in CH, I say send all of the (bland) Emmentaler to the U.S.; I wouldn't miss it! ;-) Inländervorrang for the rest!

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#193

Post by Xmd5a »

enopod_ wrote: post #184
chris_va wrote: post #24

> Properly formed eyes are a mark of quality. Except when I asked someone who makes cheese in Switzerland, they told me almost the opposite (and mostly that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff). As an aside, what are the odds this article was written by AI? It has that feel (minus random bolding and bullet points).

As a Swiss, I can assure you that this is false. Most cheese varieties have very strict quality requirements, if they're not met, the cheese may only end up as no-name ground cheese for pizza or something like that. But an Emmentaler, Gruyere, or Sbrinz always has the same quality, no matter if it's exported or for domestic consumption.

As a Frenchman I disagree, cheese is very sensitive to environmental condition, in particular during transport. To eat a good piece of St Nectaire, first go to to St Nectaire (eat the crust too!)

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#194

Post by cjs_ac »

carlosjobim wrote: post #186
cjs_ac wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss consumers are wealthier than American consumers.

Averages and means are of no significance in this equation. What matters is which market has the most customers who can afford your product. Luxury goods are sold worldwide even to hell hole countries, because there's people there who can afford them.

We're talking about cheese. To American consumers, this is luxury, imported cheese, only available from specialist retailers. To Swiss consumers, it's everyday cheese sold in ordinary supermarkets.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#195

Post by crote »

carlosjobim wrote: post #186
cjs_ac wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss consumers are wealthier than American consumers.

Averages and means are of no significance in this equation. What matters is which market has the most customers who can afford your product. Luxury goods are sold worldwide even to hell hole countries, because there's people there who can afford them.

In Switzerland, "Swiss cheese" is just cheese. It's only a luxury product in the US because it has to be shipped to a different continent.

So who can afford it? In Switzerland, everyone.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#196

Post by crote »

baxtr wrote: post #159
fsckboy wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff people who produce and sell stuff follow profit maximization. Colombia sells its best coffee on the export market because there it will command the highest prices. The people who live in wine growing regions (agricultural) do not have the disposable income to afford expensive wines, so they are shipped to cities. Great croissants are sold locally be…

What you are describing holds true only if the buyer values the higher quality, which is true for coffee. But if you can send the cheap stuff and get the same price why not do that and keep the high quality items for the local market? Southern Europeans export their tasteless tomatoes to Northern Europe because people there don’t value tasty tomatoes that much. So southern Europeans keep the good vegetables for thems…

Fun fact: The Netherlands exports tomatoes to Spain and Italy!

Southern European summers have become too hot to grow tomatoes, so during the summer they have to be imported. The native ones are only available during the winter - when they are indeed exported back up as well.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#197

Post by bryanrasmussen »

mattclarkdotnet wrote: post #122
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard that Denmark exports their best pigs and leaves the second best for home. Not sure why that should be any truer than what you heard regarding Switzerland and their strategy, but they seem to represent two differing strategies about how to best profit from strong points, it would be nice to figure if either is the dominant one. Perhaps we can ask Italy what they do with tomatoes and parmigiano.

In two minds as to your sarcasm level. Anyone who has eaten bacon in Denmark or Raclette in Switzerland or a fresh pasta sauce in Italy could testify that the best stays home

I heard it from a Dane, but obviously your taste buds have allowed you to take a statistically meaningful sampling, that's pretty lucky.

The reason why I might give it some credence is twofold

1. I would suppose travel from point X to point Y might lead to degradation of quality and thus the top quality leaving at X might be passable when arriving at Y.

2. I suppose there are different income levels involved, Danes are pretty parsimonious.

I don't think most of them actually care about having the best, they care about having passable quality which is of course much better than a middle class person will have access to in the U.S, but perhaps they export the best and premium because obviously with a world wide market there would be enough really upper-scale rich buyers to make it worthwhile to do so.

I have to say I don't really care much, but I think there may be scenarios in which a large portion of the best quality of a nation's produce gets exported (obviously not all of it, but a large portion) and am interested in that as how economics works.

As far as anecdotes however, my Italian ex-wife said the best Italian food she ever had was at a fancy restaurant we went to in Prague. I thought it was good but I don't much care past a certain point, so I didn't notice. My favorite was a small restaurant in Vomero that just made the same two dishes all day long and all the workers came to eat there. I like Danish pork, but generally stuff like flæskesteg, which historically was yes, a luxury good, but a luxury good for peasants. So I think probably not the best.

Yes definitely anything I have eaten in Danish or Italian dishes in their homeland was better than what I ate in those culinary traditions in the U.S or England, but I doubt that was because I had a great sampling to choose from and could decide what was what based only on my experience.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#198

Post by matttproud »

alkonaut wrote: post #176
NoPicklez wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course not, but at some point it became an icon. Similar to eating a Danish pastry, like the Danish only made one type of pastry... Of course cheese with holes in it isn't the only type of cheese they make

> Similar to eating a Danish pastry, like the Danish only made one type of pastry... Amusingly, the danish pastry would be called "wienerbrød" meaning: bread from Vienna. like the Viennese only made one type of pastry... Luckily, the Viennese don't call it something-from-somewhere, so the chain ends at 3. I wonder if there is a 4-chain of terms anywhere.

Another similar naming rabbit hole (hyper-local to Switzerland): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanisch_Brötli.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#199

Post by baxtr »

mschuster91 wrote: post #172
baxtr wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing holds true only if the buyer values the higher quality, which is true for coffee. But if you can send the cheap stuff and get the same price why not do that and keep the high quality items for the local market? Southern Europeans export their tasteless tomatoes to Northern Europe because people there don’t value tasty tomatoes that much. So southern Europeans keep the good vegetables for thems…

> Southern Europeans export their tasteless tomatoes to Northern Europe because people there don’t value tasty tomatoes that much. So southern Europeans keep the good vegetables for themselves. It's the other way around. The problem is that mass-market tomato varieties have been selected and bred for a long shelf life - which led to them losing taste because breeders didn't care about taste, only about durability [1]…

Ok interesting!

And basically you’re saying the same as I am. If Northern Europeans would value taste enough, they’d be happy to pay double (since 50% of the shipment would go bad as you write).

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#200

Post by baxtr »

crote wrote: post #196
baxtr wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing holds true only if the buyer values the higher quality, which is true for coffee. But if you can send the cheap stuff and get the same price why not do that and keep the high quality items for the local market? Southern Europeans export their tasteless tomatoes to Northern Europe because people there don’t value tasty tomatoes that much. So southern Europeans keep the good vegetables for thems…

Fun fact: The Netherlands exports tomatoes to Spain and Italy! Southern European summers have become too hot to grow tomatoes, so during the summer they have to be imported. The native ones are only available during the winter - when they are indeed exported back up as well.

Interesting! So basically they’re moving large amounts of water back and forth!
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