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Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

phys.org

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Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#191

Post by rhubarbtree »

sushp wrote: post #45
WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

I had a good impression of "Montessori" from hearing that Larry/Sergey/Bezos went to one. When I put my kid in it at 3 years old, he hated it. As I looked into it more, it seems to me that it is actually very rigid, with kids being able to play with just a small set of toys that don't really exercise their creativity, and with little opportunity for group play. We switched him to a Reggio Emilia school where the kids…

This comment and the whole conversation is a great argument for the value of science like this study vs a biased sample of anecdata.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#192

Post by gen220 »

objektif wrote: post #99
Taek wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like anything, there are lower and higher quality implementations of Montessori programs. What you are saying here does not reflect the Montessori program I went through myself, and I think I can credit the Montessori program with a great deal of my later stage curiosity and drive to outperform. I would say the same of the public high school that I attended. The attitude of the teachers and the other students was fan…

We visited multiple Montessori schools for both my kids and I can confidently say that I met some of the saddest and coldest teachers I have ever seen in my life. I am not sure that is really best environment for small kids. I myself went to shitty public schools and became an exceptional student later on. I am doubtful about the impact of early education on future success.

Not intending to be rude, but the common denominator here might be the region these schools are based in, vs the particular flavor of education.

A close family member of mine has taught Montessori for 30 years at the same school. The school has changed a lot in those 30 years (for the worse, unfortunately), but it’s nothing to do with the education methods and everything to do with broader trends in the area.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#193

Post by em-bee »

NedF wrote: post #117
WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

> and it really is a wonderful system. Absolutely, how many ghetto kids are in the school? It weeds them out through $ and expulsions. Thinking the Montessori system is relevant to the public system shows your schooling failed. Montessori has the ability to chose pedagogy so certainly has facets that are the quite good and should be applied publicly except for liberal arts graduate ideals. This study is very young ch…

the montessori method implements discipline. that's one of its features. weeding out ghetto kids is not. that's a problem coming from lack of support from the community/government to pay for a montessori school for those kids. and expulsions should not happen. again, not a feature of montessori education.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#194

Post by mcv »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #164
mcv wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely depends on the child. I phrased it too generally. I like the idea of Montessori a lot, but it depends a lot on executive skills: being able to plan, start project, finish projects, etc. My kids both sucked at that, and I'm not great at it either. My oldest son, despite his stellar IQ, completely drowned in projects. No idea what to do, when to start, how to start, how to finish it, and even when he fini…

> My oldest son, despite his stellar IQ, completely drowned in projects. No idea what to do, when to start, how to start, how to finish it, and even when he finished it, he forgot to turn it in. He simply needs more guidance. > He's now finally getting better at it, at 16, which is about time, because at the university, you have to be able to do all of this. You definitely don't.

Struggling with this is exactly why I never quite finished my degree. All the papers where I had to choose what to write about, without having an immediate topic I just had to write about, never even got started. Thesis is an even bigger project. Dropping out and not having to do it anymore felt like a relief.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#195

Post by ianbicking »

antasvara wrote: post #141

Having been through Montessori, I think it's fantastic for kids that are naturally self-driven. I had a great time when it came to learning science and English (the two subjects I cared the most about). Howrver, I was also pretty far behind in math for reasons unrelated to ability (standardized testing and secondary educational success indicate that I'm actually pretty good at math). I also left with very underdevelo…

I think there might be a pattern across education with a strong ideology (Montessori, Waldorf, Classical education, etc) that they aren't very good at recognizing when the ideology is failing a kid. The relatively weak and mushy educational philosophy of a normal public school is also a somewhat reasonable way to run a school that has to take kids wherever they are at and wherever they came from.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#196

Post by phil21 »

jedimastert wrote: post #29
PiRho3141 wrote: post #27

I send my child to a private Montessori school. With that said, there's no denying that sending your child to a private Montessori school is similar to parents who buy books in learning to parent are typically better parents not because they read the books but because they care enough to buy the books. If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school, the parent is invested in the child's success and I th…

> If you care enough to send your child to a Montessori school Think you mean to say that if you are well be enough to send your child to a private school...I try not to pull out the "privilege" card but good grief.

I grew up quite poor.

My parents cared enough to find ways to get me into private schools on grants and scholarships.

My neighbors had just as many if not more opportunities to do so but did not care enough to do so for their children.

Yes, it’s caring. Education as a top priority for poor families is the number one way a parent can give their kid a better life than they had. Most do not even try.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#198

Post by antasvara »

em-bee wrote: post #174
antasvara wrote: post #141

Having been through Montessori, I think it's fantastic for kids that are naturally self-driven. I had a great time when it came to learning science and English (the two subjects I cared the most about). Howrver, I was also pretty far behind in math for reasons unrelated to ability (standardized testing and secondary educational success indicate that I'm actually pretty good at math). I also left with very underdevelo…

I was also pretty far behind in math for reasons unrelated to ability. I also left with very underdeveloped time management and study skills. if that is the case you didn't experience a good montessori program, because that should have taken care of that.

Nope, fully accredited Montessori school and trained Montessori teachers.

I'm actually a huge fan of Montessori schools, including the one I went to. It was a great experience.

But in my experience and the experience of a lot of others I've talked to, Montessori schools aren't perfect. The method does really well fostering natural curiosity and harnessing it for learning. Essentially, it develops internal motivation super successfully.

But, as I've seen and heard from plenty of parents and at least one teacher, the method struggles with students that can't find that internal motivation. The sort of freedom a Montessori classroom gives you is not ideal for everyone. I think it's okay to admit that.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#199

Post by phatfish »

sushp wrote: post #45
WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

I had a good impression of "Montessori" from hearing that Larry/Sergey/Bezos went to one. When I put my kid in it at 3 years old, he hated it. As I looked into it more, it seems to me that it is actually very rigid, with kids being able to play with just a small set of toys that don't really exercise their creativity, and with little opportunity for group play. We switched him to a Reggio Emilia school where the kids…

I have a book "The Montessori Toddler".

We read a lot with our son who is almost 3 now. In the book it is recommended not to introduce fantasy in books until 6 (when apparently children suddenly understand the difference between fantasy and reality). I assume this is an original Montessori teaching.

Anyone who knows childrens books knows they are around 95% fantasy stories containing anthropomorphized animals (and some cars/trains/planes).

As far as i can tell our son knows the difference between what we read in books and the real world, and has done for a while. The things we read in books we discuss while reading. In the real world we discuss real world things. He has never shown behavior that would suggest these are mixed up in his head.

Maybe I misunderstand their point around fantasy/reality. But the seems so obviously wrong to me that I would be cautious about the rest of their teachings. Which does seem to contain some good advice.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#200

Post by antasvara »

ip26 wrote: post #154
antasvara wrote: post #141

Having been through Montessori, I think it's fantastic for kids that are naturally self-driven. I had a great time when it came to learning science and English (the two subjects I cared the most about). Howrver, I was also pretty far behind in math for reasons unrelated to ability (standardized testing and secondary educational success indicate that I'm actually pretty good at math). I also left with very underdevelo…

Intervening when they are merely far behind their ability!? Sounds like imposing adult anxieties onto the natural development path of a child!

Sure, there's an element of that. But I think it's fair to say that life involves doing things you don't want to do sometimes and Montessori struggles with that.
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