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ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

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Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#191
post #165
post #17

Nice! Linux gaming came a long way.

What I see there is Windows games running on Linux.

Which is great for Linux gaming, since it removes the need to use Windows.

Windows games worked on Linux for years with different levels of success, the difference is that now they work much much better and at times better than on Windows itself :)

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#192
post #99
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DRM is optional on Steam. The dev can opt to not include it, and the default Steam DRM is trivially bypassed anyway. Valve barely does any gatekeeping that isn't caused by outside pressure, i.e. Visa and Mastercard in the latest instance, which they're atleast trying to fight back against, from what I can tell.

Valve does some important gatekeeping that has a real impact: There's (almost?) no ads and microtransactions in Steam games. If you look at mobile games or browser games, you can see that developers would put them in, if they could.

> microtransactions in Steam games

ROFL.

Valve made games have (and heavily popularized): Paid battlepasses, Microtransactions, Loot Boxes and "NFTs"

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#193

I know this is extreme, but people buying these Xbox handhelds over a Steam Deck are directly harming the future of gaming on PC. It's time that the PC gaming ecosystem breaks free from its dependency on Windows. Proton and SteamOS, combined with the unpopular mess that is Windows 11 is the perfect opportunity to do so. The long-term end goal for Microsoft is to lock down Windows and force signed code. Once users are…

Steam Deck is Zen 2. Rog Xbox Ally X is Zen 5.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people who buy Steam Decks don’t care whatsoever about Linux and would be perfectly fine with not having control over it as long as all their games worked.

I think Steam Decks wouldn't ever have existed without Linux enthusiasts as early adopters of Steam Decks and the few previous iterations of Steam + Linux either playing games on their own machines or on the previous iteration of a Steam Linux computer. If at any point it was all tied up with DRM and that complete loss of control required for anti-cheat it would have just died and not be seen again. The only way it c…

The differentiation of the Steam Deck is the game ecosystem, ability to play your existing PC game library on the go, and low game costs compared to consoles during the frequent sales.

I don't think Linux is a differentiator for the Steam Deck. It's obviously essential as a technical foundation though, similar to how it’s essential to Android phones.

But locking it down with DRM won't affect gamer interest in the platform as long as the games are still cheap, plentiful, and run well.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few games bother with local multiplayer anymore

Idk about that. The selection is pretty huge. Sonic racing just came out with 4 player local multi player, stardew valley has it, the majority of Nintendo games. Almost the majority of games designed for a TV and controller have local multiplayer. And there’s software you can use to split screen most games which don’t have it by just running two instances of the game.

Nintendo games generally have it but not so much the actual major console games. I believe the last local multiplayer fps on xbox platform was halo mcc for example.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#196

I know this is extreme, but people buying these Xbox handhelds over a Steam Deck are directly harming the future of gaming on PC. It's time that the PC gaming ecosystem breaks free from its dependency on Windows. Proton and SteamOS, combined with the unpopular mess that is Windows 11 is the perfect opportunity to do so. The long-term end goal for Microsoft is to lock down Windows and force signed code. Once users are…

I love my Steam Deck, but it is really frustrating how many of the games i regularly play can't be played on it - Madden, EA FC, PUBG, all won't run even though the hardware is plenty to play them. The limitations of anti cheat on Linux might be insurmountable

I wonder how League of Legends (LoL) manages, given it didn't rely on kernel-level anti-cheat when I was playing. Granted, you'd have to report one or two players per week; but that was quite a rare thing and mostly it was obvious levelling bots. Clearly they manage without root kit-level hacks.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#197

I know this is extreme, but people buying these Xbox handhelds over a Steam Deck are directly harming the future of gaming on PC. It's time that the PC gaming ecosystem breaks free from its dependency on Windows. Proton and SteamOS, combined with the unpopular mess that is Windows 11 is the perfect opportunity to do so. The long-term end goal for Microsoft is to lock down Windows and force signed code. Once users are…

I love my Steam Deck, but it is really frustrating how many of the games i regularly play can't be played on it - Madden, EA FC, PUBG, all won't run even though the hardware is plenty to play them. The limitations of anti cheat on Linux might be insurmountable

Valve wont's give anti-cheat tools root access, and Microsoft will, but after the CrowdStrike fiasco, there's rumors that Microsoft will limit root access to monitoring tools, so anti-cheat engines on Windows might lose their advantage.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my Steam Deck, but it is really frustrating how many of the games i regularly play can't be played on it - Madden, EA FC, PUBG, all won't run even though the hardware is plenty to play them. The limitations of anti cheat on Linux might be insurmountable

Counter: it's the publisher's fault, not Linux. As you said, the hardware is perfectly capable, and the OS is capable, publishers just refuse to allow it without installing kernel level malware. It's EA's fault that you're required to install a damn rootkit to play a game. It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this. Microsoft shouldn't allow it either, and they will likely shut it down before too much lon…

> It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this.

Linux doesn't refuse anything, it's free and open source software. If publishers want to offer anti-cheat software developed for Linux, it will run. In fact, many games do have anti-cheat, like Insurgency: Sandstorm, which uses EAC through Proton.

Publishers can even develop invasive kernel-level anti-cheat just like they do for Windows. They don't because it's a small portion of the market currently, and I assume they consider it not worth the investment as of now. To what extent existing Linux users would willingly allow such software to run is also an open question.

There's also the point that even invasive kernel level anti-cheat on Windows with requirements for secure boot continues to be inadequate to stop cheaters in competitive online games.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter: it's the publisher's fault, not Linux. As you said, the hardware is perfectly capable, and the OS is capable, publishers just refuse to allow it without installing kernel level malware. It's EA's fault that you're required to install a damn rootkit to play a game. It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this. Microsoft shouldn't allow it either, and they will likely shut it down before too much lon…

> It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this. Linux doesn't refuse anything, it's free and open source software. If publishers want to offer anti-cheat software developed for Linux, it will run. In fact, many games do have anti-cheat, like Insurgency: Sandstorm, which uses EAC through Proton. Publishers can even develop invasive kernel-level anti-cheat just like they do for Windows. They don't because it'…

Assuming the Anti-Cheat won't be GPL licensed (which would probably make it useless), the Linux kernel does indeed refuse to cooperate: https://lwn.net/Articles/939842/

Sure, there are technical solution around this, but they are legally questionable.

Re: ROG Xbox Ally runs better on Linux than Windows it ships with

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter: it's the publisher's fault, not Linux. As you said, the hardware is perfectly capable, and the OS is capable, publishers just refuse to allow it without installing kernel level malware. It's EA's fault that you're required to install a damn rootkit to play a game. It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this. Microsoft shouldn't allow it either, and they will likely shut it down before too much lon…

> It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this. Linux doesn't refuse anything, it's free and open source software. If publishers want to offer anti-cheat software developed for Linux, it will run. In fact, many games do have anti-cheat, like Insurgency: Sandstorm, which uses EAC through Proton. Publishers can even develop invasive kernel-level anti-cheat just like they do for Windows. They don't because it'…

Anti cheats basically don't work on Linux at all. One of the primary jobs of anti cheat software is to monitor the OS environment and detect people trying to inject code into the game process or read the game process's memory. On Windows kernel access is gate kept by Microsoft and restricts cheat software's options for how to read memory and inject code. The standard Win32 APIs are monitored and the cheats need exploitable kernel drivers to get in.

On Linux this can't work because a cheater can just build their own kernel with all the protections disabled or with intentional vulnerabilities. From what I've heard, statistics for games running anti cheats on Linux alongside Windows find the vast majority of cheaters on Linux.

Given this situation I think it's entirely reasonable to not support Linux if you're handing cheaters the game on a silver platter.

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