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JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

stalw.art

191–200 of 204 posts

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#191
post #39
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the textual nature of older IETF protocols, including the CR LF line endigns, can be probably traced to how easy it was to bang out a bad implementation full of subtle problems that could be debugged by sitting an undergrad student at a teletype instead of spending time on having some binary serializer (that telecom companies definitely had money for)

It's also a reflection of the state-of-the-art at the time. Binary protocols were an unmitigated disaster, with standards bodies thinking that applying to the ISO for your organizational ID is a perfectly fine step that anyone does anyway.

> with standards bodies thinking that applying to the ISO for your organizational ID is a perfectly fine step that anyone does anyway

Fortunately there is the 2.25 OID arc now, which you can use without any registration with anyone. There are also other ways to register OIDs for free. (I think that it is better than using domain names, which can be reassigned, and also require registration anyways. IDN is an even more severe problem (it could have been designed better, but they made it worse instead).)

I had idea (which would have to later be made standardized by ITU or ISO (preferably ITU)) of a new OID arc which allows you to combine an existing identifier (of many different types, such as: international telephone numbers, amateur radio call signs, internet domain names (encoded as bijective base 37), IP addresses, ICAO airport codes, etc) with a timestamp, and optional auto-delegation. (You can then add additional numbers like you can with other OIDs too)

Binary protocols have other benefits as well, such as not requiring escaping, and allowing binary data to be transferred is a way that is not as messy, not causing problems with character sets, etc.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#192
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m wondering if the design space for new protocols should really be constrained to layers on top of HTTP. Absolutely yes, IMO. This significantly eases web client development.

Not being tied to well-known port numbers, and by extension a single service per IP address, is also great.

You can run HTTPS on any port.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imapgoose which was recently featured here I think is another option: https://whynothugo.nl/journal/2025/10/15/introducing-imapgoo...

Stalwart currently does not support the NOTIFY extension to IMAP, needed for ImapGoose, though it is planned: https://github.com/stalwartlabs/stalwart/issues/484

Does this actually impact the remote IMAP -> Stalwart route?

That said, getting timely notifications is definitely an important point!

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean, dovecot can't handle UTF-8? It works with any properly MIME-encoded message on one hand and allows (even requires) proper UTF-8 for folder and namespace names on the other hand. I don't have any problems to use UTF-8 in my messages received via dovecot and I have some folders with national characters on my account, and it works both with IMAP and Sieve.

No proper SMTPUTF8 support for starters.

dovecot is not SMTP server. And there is standard way to encode any charset in (almost any) message header for ages. We never will create e-mail messages with headers by hand in telnet session anymore, anyway.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#195
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem with clients not protocols but UI&UX. New protocols can change nothing in this area. Maybe, Apple Mail is good, again, I don't know as I'm not using Apple, but I don't know any client for Windows and/or OSS with Windows support which has as basic features as support of per-folder settings (identity, sorting mode, etc.) stored on server or proper support for Sieve. In my eyes it is basic features. And don't le…

On a tangent: For do you use format-flowed in text-only that you send? I'm never quite sure if it's universally and effectively supported enough to implement for less-technical users, or better to just define the EOL (and lose dynamic adjustment to viewer width).

I had complains about "too long lines" in my e-mails many times and now try to use EOLs, unfortunately.

It is exactly what I said: all modern, GUI e-mail clients suck at basic functions, like displaying simple message with several layers of quotations and long lines, they cannot wrap lines with visually duplicating quotations properly, often they could not wrap even "new" (unquoted) lines at all and show horizontal scrollers. JMAP is no help here.

It was solved problem in age of terminal clients, heck, GoldEd for FIDOnet was able to do this in 1990s.

Instead of new protocols it was better to standardize MarkDown (+extension for nested quoting) in e-mails, but this train is long gone, I'm afraid.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No proper SMTPUTF8 support for starters.

dovecot is not SMTP server. And there is standard way to encode any charset in (almost any) message header for ages. We never will create e-mail messages with headers by hand in telnet session anymore, anyway.

> dovecot is not SMTP server.

Don't get confused by the name of the extension that it's somehow SMTP-only.

> And there is standard way to encode any charset in (almost any) message header for ages.

Actually, no. For example there is no allowed/standardised way to encode a MIME From address that uses UTF-8. It is only permitted to encode the non-structured part of a header such as the comment or phrase, but not the structured part (the address itself). It is also explicitly forbidden to encode anything in the Received header field.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dovecot is not SMTP server. And there is standard way to encode any charset in (almost any) message header for ages. We never will create e-mail messages with headers by hand in telnet session anymore, anyway.

> dovecot is not SMTP server. Don't get confused by the name of the extension that it's somehow SMTP-only. > And there is standard way to encode any charset in (almost any) message header for ages. Actually, no. For example there is no allowed/standardised way to encode a MIME From address that uses UTF-8. It is only permitted to encode the non-structured part of a header such as the comment or phrase, but not the st…

My bad, I've dug dipper into the problem now and now see, that this is really a problem.

You are right.

But, again, what is simpler: add feature to existing OSS project or write all new protocols?

Second is more fun, for sure, I can understand that as programmer myself.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dovecot is not SMTP server. Don't get confused by the name of the extension that it's somehow SMTP-only. > And there is standard way to encode any charset in (almost any) message header for ages. Actually, no. For example there is no allowed/standardised way to encode a MIME From address that uses UTF-8. It is only permitted to encode the non-structured part of a header such as the comment or phrase, but not the st…

My bad, I've dug dipper into the problem now and now see, that this is really a problem. You are right. But, again, what is simpler: add feature to existing OSS project or write all new protocols? Second is more fun, for sure, I can understand that as programmer myself.

This extension amongst other features has not been implemented in Dovecot for a long time now. If it were easy (or easier) I'm sure it would be there already.

I do get the sentiment that building on top of old is usually better and more efficient, but this unfortunately does not carry over well to the entire ecosystem and each project. So it's better to replace in some cases, maybe not with a new protocol but a new implementation.

But to answer your question, you can actually do both. Stalwart both added the feature and support for all new protocols. It didn't take a decade either.

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#199
post #24

I wish there was an easy auto-update process for Stalwart. is anyone hosting an apt repo for it? edit: we use it on very resource constrained environments, the container version is too much overhead.

What resource constraints allow you to apt-get but not docker pull? It’s the same resulting stack isn’t it? I am most curious

disk space on the system volume

Re: JMAP for Calendars, Contacts and Files Now in Stalwart

#200
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being tied to well-known port numbers, and by extension a single service per IP address, is also great.

You can run HTTPS on any port.

My argument was in favor of layering protocols on top of HTTP(S), which allows hosting an unlimited number of instances of servers for the same protocol on the same IP without having to somehow agree on using a non-standard port.
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