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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#191

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

That's not the issue. The issue is that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of french politicians who should be in jail.

I don't disagree with him going to jail: but it's one heck of a corrupt country where they all have their hands in the cookie jar.

Most french politicians who served at the EU, for example, have friends and family as "employees" on their payroll (well, on the EU citizens' payroll). Same at non-EU level: it's called "emplois fictifs" in french ("fictional jobs"). Soooo many stories about politicians at so many local, regional, national and supra-national levels engaging in "emplois fictifs".

So many mayors in France have dirty money on their hands. Where for example they block construction permits then, once joyfully greased with cash, allow the construction permits.

But Sarkozy was right-wing and the EU, and France in particular, is ultra left-wing. So it's good to put a right-wing president in jail.

Once again: I've got nothing against him going to jail. But we're talking about a country were judges are openly leftists. They're not impartial.

It's all rotten and disgusting.

And why do you think all the leftist french mainstream media root for right-wing Sarkozy? Because these media are at the hand of corrupt politicians who think a politician going to jail is a dangerous precedent. They're nearly all corrupt, so they're shitting their pants to see that even a president is sent to jail.

But yup: one politician in jail. Great. Only 9999 more to go. And corrupt judges.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#192

A former Prime Minister of a first world country in jail is insane. He must have made a crime without the help of others because in political scandals usually a whole gang of public people is liable. Then you have to convict the monkey with the bananas and the whole tree. If we follow the French justice, in my country (Greece) about 10% of people including almost all the politicians of the last decades should be in j…

Sarkozy was not the only one sentenced to jail in that trial: Claude Guéant and Brice Hortefeux were also convicted, receiving sentences of six years and two years, respectively.

And then there are the many other trials involving Sarkozy and those around him...

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#193
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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How is calling for equal and humane treatment of prisoners high and righteous? You are recommending targeted abuse for certain prisoners that goes beyond the sentence imposed by a court. Maybe a better way of stating it is that you are low and unjust.

I think the OP is in fact calling for an equal treatment of prisoners. Sarkozy isn't getting the average prison treatment here.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#195
post #23

So is this a criminal president receiving justice, or a politically motivated prosecution?

Mostly the former. The current sentence is for the illegal financing of his presidential campaign to the tune of 50 million euro, which is well above the legal cost cap. Although the amounts are benign compared to the amount of bribery seen in the US presidential runs, it is still unfair democratically and should be punished harshly accordingly. Interestingly, this case isn't motivated by financial greed, as in bribe…

> So you could be certain that such a high-profile case was not done without the go-ahead of the executive. In that sense, it can be considered politically motivated.

Not really. It is more complex than that.

There is two systems within the system for the "penal" (judiciary) in France:

- Le parquet, with a "procureur" who indirectly under the influence of the executive power.

- The "Juge d'Instruction". They are independent judges called only for complex affairs that are in charge of proof gathering and with more or less free hands.

Sarkozy affairs landed in the second system.

Politicans tend to hate the second systems for obvious reasons.

It is worth to notice that Sarkozy himself tried to reform the system and remove the "Juge d'instruction" entirely but ultimately failed.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#196

oh I wish the American people were this brave

What I see in the US is that the judiciary has already become partisan. In most of Europe, if there's a trial, the judge is just some nameless character. I mean, he has a name of course, but nobody can really point the finger at them and say they are interested in one side or the other. It's just not the done thing. By contrast, American judges are appointed by politicians, and people can claim they are not impartial…

I think that's just a case of you not knowing European judges are partisan, rather than you knowing they're not. I think the relative obscurity of judges in Europe is just lack of scrutiny, and I personally know of numerous situations where cases are handled poorly.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 3 ECHR should prevent the prison authorities from putting any prisoner in a position where they know he's going to "get roughed up". You and I both want that right for ourselves, so surely we should also extend it to Sarzoky?

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#198

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

Exactly. Meanwhile 75% of French people agree that he should go to jail. This is nuts

And then France will get Bardella... It's very very close now. And thanks to Trump we are now arming Europe. It doesn't go in the right direction.
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