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AI is making us work more

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Re: AI is making us work more

#191

Post by jstummbillig »

subsection1h wrote: post #152
jstummbillig wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just empirically not true. Increase in productivity has lead to broad increase in prosperity (with one relatively recent but currently very important caveat, the housing market). Now, if what you actually want is to be relatively more prosperous and have more status that's a game you can keep playing forever. But you really don't have to, to simply be better off than all people in the past with far less work.

> Increase in productivity has lead to broad increase in prosperity All of my grandparents retired in their 50s with fat pensions and then lived into their late 80s without having ever stepped foot on a college campus.

You can do that today. But there was a no episode in history where that would have bene the norm or more likely than it is today. Anecdotes are just that.

Re: AI is making us work more

#192

Post by sothatsit »

throwaway0123_5 wrote: post #182
sothatsit wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak for yourself. I want cheaper building costs so we can build more housing, cheaper and safer vehicles, higher quality food so we can all be healthier, better medical technology and medicines so we can solve more diseases, and new washing-machine-like technologies so I can spend more time with friends/family. That’s not to mention that greater leverage on my labour would give me even more flexibility to choose th…

Making all of those things cheaper is great, as long the automation isn't also making everyone poorer at an equal or faster rate. It doesn't really help if house prices and food prices are cut in half if most people lose their employment because of automation. I think the concern is that true human+ AGI and advanced robotics would obsolete so many roles that it doesn't matter if things can be made more efficiently, b…

On the path to “AGI” I would expect a lot of short-term pain as people lose their jobs while unemployment is still around normal levels. But if unemployment rises too much, we would pass laws to protect people, like greater corporate taxes to fund things like UBI.

But honestly, if we have this level of automation it feels like it would be very hard to predict how society will evolve. I would expect our current model of work-to-live to become untenable, and we’d move to something else. I doubt that transition will be easy.

Re: AI is making us work more

#193

Post by rightbyte »

nakamoto_damacy wrote: post #91
gdulli wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth I responded sarcastically thinking you were being serious, because... gestures vaguely around

The SMH did not give it way? On the SMH as a semiotic, funny how IMHO evolved into IMO and SMDH evolved into SMH. Some of us refuse to be humble or self deprecating.

I though SMH meant 'somehow' until looking it up now.

Re: AI is making us work more

#194

Post by ponector »

pmg101 wrote: post #71
everdrive wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Being adaptable now is more important than ever. I do actually plan on getting old, and as much as I would love to retire before I'm no longer adaptable, I'm not so sure my finances or my brain will comply. >At home I save time because my dishwasher automates washing my dishes. I don't think this fits my analogy, because you personally can go watch TV or read a book or exercise given the time that is saved by the di…

Let's say you could automate your job and go on a hike. Great! You can have a fun hike. But you wouldn't get paid for that. I think it's broadly reasonable that you would only be paid for doing something someone else needs doing.

>> you would only be paid for doing something someone else needs doing

Right, like drinking coffee at the kitchen in the office.

Re: AI is making us work more

#195

Post by inetknght »

ashanoko wrote: post #139

To be honest the self confidence of ai is rubbing off on the species in a good way. As in suddenly there is somebody there who beliefs in you, unlike that family that constantly sabotage you, the partner that tries to keep your ego in a "handleable due to absence of success" shape. And all those ideologies that want to cripple any one standing out, they can take a hike. So what if its confidently wrong, at least it b…

You're absolutely right! [0]

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44885398

Re: AI is making us work more

#196

Post by lovich »

jstummbillig wrote: post #58
everdrive wrote: post #37

I was never excited for automation. Automation doesn't mean we do less. It means that we do as much work, and now also the work has a higher complexity ceiling; you need to understand the systems that are being automated, and need to maintain the automation. More things are possible, but everything is more complex, and of course, you still need to work 40 hours a week. Products don't get better either, but that's mor…

This is just empirically not true. Increase in productivity has lead to broad increase in prosperity (with one relatively recent but currently very important caveat, the housing market). Now, if what you actually want is to be relatively more prosperous and have more status that's a game you can keep playing forever. But you really don't have to, to simply be better off than all people in the past with far less work.

> Now, if what you actually want is to be relatively more prosperous and have more status that's a game you can keep playing forever. But you really don't have to, to simply be better off than all people in the past with far less work.

Everyone I grew up with or met via work that is my age or younger has 1-3 more degrees than their parents and grandparents and are significantly worse off when it comes to standard life milestones like buying a home or ever having children.

We are not becoming relatively more prosperous as a people. We have more bread and circuses and less roofs over our heads on average

Re: AI is making us work more

#197

Post by lovich »

jstummbillig wrote: post #191
subsection1h wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Increase in productivity has lead to broad increase in prosperity All of my grandparents retired in their 50s with fat pensions and then lived into their late 80s without having ever stepped foot on a college campus.

You can do that today. But there was a no episode in history where that would have bene the norm or more likely than it is today. Anecdotes are just that.

Where?

The only place I can think of giving pensions at that age anymore is the military. And you aren’t getting a fat pension without being an officer which requires a degree

Re: AI is making us work more

#198

Post by gmadsen »

recursive wrote: post #112
gmadsen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as part of the prompt, have a test suite with test files. Its still fully automated by the LLM but adds confidence

If it's under the umbrella of LLM automation, then I'd also need to verify that the test suite behavior actually matches the "production" behavior.

sure, but that is less work. you can also have separate LLM QA prompts that assess test suite behavior to production behavior.

ultimately you are right, the buck needs to stop somewhere, but at least in my experience, the more you add quality/test checks as LLM workflows, the higher the rate of success.

Re: AI is making us work more

#199

Post by rightbyte »

daxfohl wrote: post #121

Just wait till AI starts taking managerial roles. Instead of annual reviews it'll be hourly reviews. "You only have five background AI coding sessions in progress right now. PIP!"

MS' Recall is probably some build up for automatic performance reviews.

Re: AI is making us work more

#200

Post by ponector »

thewebguyd wrote: post #177
pmg101 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say you could automate your job and go on a hike. Great! You can have a fun hike. But you wouldn't get paid for that. I think it's broadly reasonable that you would only be paid for doing something someone else needs doing.

> But you wouldn't get paid for that.f Maybe you wouldn't, but you definitely should. Knowledge workers aren't paid for their labor (in the form of me trading my time and effort for wages), knowledge workers are paid for impact. I'm trading my ability to reason, decide, and create value for the company. I'm valuable not because I sit at a desk and type for 8 hours. I'm valuable because the outputs of my thinking help…

>> My employer isn't buying 8 hours of my time , they're buying the outputs that come from expertise and judgement

I'm pretty sure your typical managers don't think so.

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