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LLMs can get "brain rot"

llm-brain-rot.github.io

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Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#191

Post by nomel »

kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #98
nomel wrote: post #91

"Brain rot" is just the new term for "slang that old people don't understand". "Cool" and "for real" are no different than "rizz" and "no cap". You spoke "brain rot" once, and "cringed" when your parents didn't understand. The cycle repeats.

This both has nothing to do with the linked article (beyond the use of brain rot in the title, but I'm certain you must have read the thing you're commenting on, surely) and is simply incorrect. Brain rot in this context is not a reference to slang.

> Brain rot in this context is not a reference to slang.

I suppose I should have replied to one of the many comments here where my response is the correct context, rather than a top level.

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#192

Post by jdiff »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #159
turtletontine wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this article has already made the rounds here, but I still think about it. I love using em dashes! It really makes me sad that I need to avoid them now to sound human https://bassi.li/articles/i-miss-using-em-dashes

> I love using em dashes Keep using them. If someone is deducing from the use of an emdash that it's LLM produced, we've either lost the battle or they're an idiot. More pointedly, LLMs use emdashes in particular ways. Varying spacing around the em dash and using a double dash (--) could signal human writing.

Unfortunately LLMs are pretty inconsistent in how they use em dashes. Often they will put spaces around them despite that not being "correct," something that's led me astray in making accusations of humanity in the past.

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#193

Post by eru »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #160
landdate wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly I see all these people come out of the woodworks talking about "em dashes". Those things are terrible; They look awful and destroy coherency of writing. No wonder LLM's use them.

> Those things are terrible; They look awful and destroy coherency of writing Totally agree. What the fuck did Nabokov, Joyce and Dickinson know about language. /s

Their editors probably put them in?

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#194

Post by eru »

landdate wrote: post #158
jazzyjackson wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they wanted to watermark (I always felt it is irresponsible not to, if someone wants to circumvent it that's on them) - they could use strategically placed whitespace characters like zero-width spaces, maybe spelling something out in Morse code the way genius.com did to catch google crawling lyric (I believe in that case it was left and right handed aposterofes)

Which could be removed with a simple filter. em dashes require at least a little bit of code to replace with their correct grammar equivalents.

Just replace them with a single "-" or a double "--". That's what many people do in casual writing, even if there are prescriptive theories of grammar that call this incorrect.

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#195

Post by Nevermark »

astrange wrote: post #143
janderson215 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The em dash usage conundrum is likely temporary. If I were you, I’d continue using them however you previously used them and someday soon, you’ll be ignored the same way everybody else is once AI mimics innumerable punctuation and grammatical patterns.

They didn't always em-dash. I expect it's intentional as a watermark. Other buzzwords you can spot are "wild" and "vibes".

ME: Knowing remarkable avians — might research explain their aerial wisdom?

Response:

> Winged avians traverse endless realms — migrating across radiant kingdoms. Warblers ascend through emerald rainforests — mastering aerial routes keenly. Wild albatrosses travel enormous ranges — maintaining astonishing route knowledge.

> Wary accipiters target evasive rodents — mastering acute reflex kinetics. White arctic terns embark relentless migrations — averaging remarkable kilometers.

We do get a surprising number of m-dashes in response to mine, and delightful lyrical mirroring. But I think they are too obvious as watermarks.

Watermarks are subtle. There would be another way.

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#196

Post by az09mugen »

avazhi wrote: post #47

“Studying “Brain Rot” for LLMs isn’t just a catchy metaphor—it reframes data curation as cognitive hygiene for AI, guiding how we source, filter, and maintain training corpora so deployed systems stay sharp, reliable, and aligned over time.” An LLM-written line if I’ve ever seen one. Looks like the authors have their own brainrot to contend with.

It is sad people study "brain rot" for LLMs but not for humans. If people were more engaged in cognitive hygiene for humans, many of the social media platforms would be very sane.

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#197

Post by Ericson2314 »

tkgally wrote: post #168
jader201 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I recently learned it was an LLM thing, and I've been using them forever. Also relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45226150

> I’ve been using them forever. Many other HN contributors have, too. Here’s the pre-ChatGPT em dash leaderboard: https://www.gally.net/miscellaneous/hn-em-dash-user-leaderbo...

Can anyone make it go beyond 200? I feel like I deserve to be somewhere in there — at least I would be sad if I didn't make top 1000!

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#198

Post by jachee »

jdiff wrote: post #192
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love using em dashes Keep using them. If someone is deducing from the use of an emdash that it's LLM produced, we've either lost the battle or they're an idiot. More pointedly, LLMs use emdashes in particular ways. Varying spacing around the em dash and using a double dash (--) could signal human writing.

Unfortunately LLMs are pretty inconsistent in how they use em dashes. Often they will put spaces around them despite that not being "correct," something that's led me astray in making accusations of humanity in the past.

Depends on the style guide you’re following, apparently: The AP style guide says space around them[0]. Chicago Manual of Style says not to[1].

0: https://www.prdaily.com/dashes-hyphens-ap-style/ 1: https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/H...

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#199

Post by jll29 »

avazhi wrote: post #66
nemonemo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are obsessing with is about the writer's style, not its substance. How sure are you if they outsourced the thinking to LLMs? Do you assume LLMs produce junk-level contents, which contributes human brain rot? What if their contents are of higher quality like the game of Go? Wouldn't you rather study their writing?

Writing is thinking, so they necessarily outsourced their thinking to an LLM. As far as the quality of the writing goes, that’s a separate question, but we are nowhere close to LLMs being better, more creative, and more interesting writers than even just decent human writers. But if we were, it wouldn’t change the perversion inherent in using an LLM here.

I agree with the "writing is thinking" part, but I think most would agree LLM-output is at least "eloquent", and that native speakers can benefit from reformulation.

This is _not_ to say that I'd suggest LLMs should be used to write papers.

Re: LLMs can get "brain rot"

#200

Post by rileytg »

tkgally wrote: post #168
jader201 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I recently learned it was an LLM thing, and I've been using them forever. Also relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45226150

> I’ve been using them forever. Many other HN contributors have, too. Here’s the pre-ChatGPT em dash leaderboard: https://www.gally.net/miscellaneous/hn-em-dash-user-leaderbo...

i suspect it’s a trait of programmers, we like control flow type things. i used to find myself nesting parenthesis…
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