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California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

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Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#191
post #172

There’s an excellent discussion of the most recent RCT on UPF foods with its author here ( https://sigmanutrition.com/episode577/ ). Not only is the study itself very interesting, but it does a great job going over the evidence landscape on UPFs and food at the current point in time. Dr Dicken is very clear that at the moment, in his view, they have insufficient evidence to make policy decisions like this, a view tha…

Be aware that the science on this is evolving pretty quickly. A study came out recently that showed when folks ate a designed diet, one with and one without UPFs, they found the UPF diets resulted in a few additional lbs of weight gain. The study accounted for a ton of variables. It showed that UPF calories lead to weight gain when consuming the same number of unprocessed calories. https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolis…

I’m not an absolutist on this myself, if convincing evidence comes out then I’m happy to change my mind. I have no horse in this race besides wanting people to stay healthy. I’m just not currently convinced the UPF category adds much to our existing dietary guidelines.

Avoiding UPFs can serve as a reasonable heuristic as it can help you avoid HFSS foods, but you could also easily make some adverse switches following such advice.

I’m not sure that study really supports the inference you’re making re: calories and weight gain. The UPF diet had ~15g fibre/1000kcal less than the MP diet, so for an individual consuming 2500kcal/day there’s a 150kcal difference of energy per day that doesn’t seem to be accounted for by the studies methods (could be missing this in their calcs though?).

So yeah, if we don’t equate things like this, things look bad for UPFs. But what is the “UPF” category adding here. We don’t need it to know that if more calories are consumed as fibre in an otherwise calorie-equated diet, you’ll lose weight relative to the low fibre diet.

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#192
post #138

There’s an excellent discussion of the most recent RCT on UPF foods with its author here ( https://sigmanutrition.com/episode577/ ). Not only is the study itself very interesting, but it does a great job going over the evidence landscape on UPFs and food at the current point in time. Dr Dicken is very clear that at the moment, in his view, they have insufficient evidence to make policy decisions like this, a view tha…

and yet when Americans set foot on European soil the first thought they have is 'everyone is so thin'. if there's any misstep here, it's not focused enough on sugar (which is a hard drug for kids) .

Being thin is cultural. If your society shames you for being fat you are less likely to be fat. Has nothing to do with ultra processed food

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#193
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biscuits and crisps are generally considered to be ultra processed foods, despite containing only basic ingredients.

Well that is because there's two very different things, both called "cookies". When a grandma bakes some cookies for their grandchildren she uses only some basic ingredients - eggs, flour, butter, sugar. For the product that food industries calls as cookies however, the list of ingredients looks like a git SHA.

Is there any evidence that those are any healthier? If I'm going to overeat the same amount of calories eating store-bought cookies or grandma-made cookies - is my health outcome any different?

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 104661. (a) (1) For purposes of this article, except as provided in subdivision (b), “ultraprocessed food” or “UPF” means any food or beverage that contains a substance described in paragraph (2) and either high amounts of saturated fat, sodium, or added sugar, as described in subparagraph (A) of paragraph (3), or a nonnutritive sweetener or other substance described in subparagraph (B) of paragraph (3). > (3) (A)…

Avocado calories are pretty close to 10% saturated fat, as an example. Excess sugar and simple starches tend to get absorbed more completely than excess fat, I'm not sure added fat is the biggest issue.

Yeah, this reads like popular health guidance left over from the 1980's. Back then we though that "fat makes you fat" and shifted to sweeteners to make food taste good. Later, we found out that was all due to the sugar industry.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#195
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that is because there's two very different things, both called "cookies". When a grandma bakes some cookies for their grandchildren she uses only some basic ingredients - eggs, flour, butter, sugar. For the product that food industries calls as cookies however, the list of ingredients looks like a git SHA.

Is there any evidence that those are any healthier? If I'm going to overeat the same amount of calories eating store-bought cookies or grandma-made cookies - is my health outcome any different?

Absolutely. calories dont tell you much.

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#196
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure it is NOT the definition of that law, but my own definition is: You make a meal only of basic ingredients. A basic ingredient is something that does not have an ingredient list on its packaging. I.e. Fruit, vegetables, eggs, meat and fish does not come with an ingredient list. There are some exceptions like dairy products (butter, yoghurt, cheese) which are okay to use.

Sounds like you're defining processed food, whereas this is about ultra processed food. For me, processed food might include something like unsweetened peanut butter where while the only ingredient is peanuts, it's still been through a process of grinding so that it's no longer in its natural form. At the other end of the spectrum an example of ultra processed food would be a factory packaged item with a long list of…

The peanuts might be roasted, too. Roasting is a process.

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#197
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually pretty simple. Despite what you’re calling unhealthy foods (I’d argue kimchi has health benefits from the fermentation), they have a lower overall caloric intake and societal pressure to conform to a thin appearance. If you want to be skinny eat less calories. If you want to be healthy, eat highly nutritious foods and the right amount of calories for your lifestyle.

I don't think a large proportion of thin people are thin because of societal pressure. And conversely I don't think societal pressure makes many people thin, because I hear so much complaints about body shaming and unrealistic beauty expectations and discrimination against obesity etc, so it clearly isn't working any miracles. I think most people who are thin just have a food intake regulation that is pretty well bal…

Asians dont consume the same amounts of sugars. its that simple. they also tend to exercise more.

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#198
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that is because there's two very different things, both called "cookies". When a grandma bakes some cookies for their grandchildren she uses only some basic ingredients - eggs, flour, butter, sugar. For the product that food industries calls as cookies however, the list of ingredients looks like a git SHA.

Is there any evidence that those are any healthier? If I'm going to overeat the same amount of calories eating store-bought cookies or grandma-made cookies - is my health outcome any different?

Depends on where you are. There's food additives that are used in the US that are forbidden in Europe [1]

> The E.U. says that if they can’t dismiss the possibility of harm, they can’t find an additive safe,” Galligan says. In the U.S., the bar is much lower; companies can add new ingredients to their foods without even informing the FDA. “In the U.S., it feels like the FDA is waiting to act until harm is definitely proven,” says Galligan.

[1] https://time.com/7210717/food-additives-us-fda-banned-europe...

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#199
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that is because there's two very different things, both called "cookies". When a grandma bakes some cookies for their grandchildren she uses only some basic ingredients - eggs, flour, butter, sugar. For the product that food industries calls as cookies however, the list of ingredients looks like a git SHA.

Man, you're missing a bunch of ingredients to actually make tasty cookies. Definitely need some salt. She's probably also using vanilla extract or purchased chocolate chips (or chunks) or cinnamon. Plus the leavening agent, so baking powder (or baking soda and another acid). That's all just for the basic cookies, there's so many options out there using stuff like malted chocolate powder, and that's ignoring making pa…

It was just an example of the kinds of ingredients, not a complete list. Granma is not going to add Potassium bromate, for example.

Re: California passes law to ban ultra-processed foods from school lunches

#200
post #3

I'll be very interested to see the definition of "ultra-processed" in this legislation. I couldn't find one at a first glance - it seems to mandate that someone defines it, but doesn't contain a definition itself from what I could see. Edit: Found it. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml... (thanks to @crummy for the correction). Seems like a reasonable start. Amusing to see that alcoholic dri…

>> In July 2025, the federal Centers for Disease Control (CDC) reported that 32.7 percent of children and youth between 12 and 19 years old are prediabetic. > Wow. Sadly, I'm not too surprised. My state also has free breakfast and lunch in public schools and it is possible for them to get served over 100g of added sugar between the two meals and classroom provided snacks. Then add to it whatever the kids are eating a…

How much of this is that children refuse to eat normal whole foods? I've heard stories from teachers that mention that children often would rather go without food than eat anything remotely healthy (e.g. apples from cafeteria). My own personal experience from places that are considered food desert is often seeing rotting fruit not being consumed.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to offer healthy option, but just that those would have a limited impact on obesity, expect for maybe calorie deficit if they choose to forgo breakfast or lunch

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